Age and piloting dream?

Hello everyone!

I know how busy you all must be with the recovery seeming to come fully online, so I will be brief.

I’ve had a very successful career; but I’ve also had a lifelong dream to be an airline pilot which I have now deferred to the age of 45. I recognize that leaves me only a 20-year timespan in which to get through my training, instruct to the golden 1,500, and then live my dream at an airline.

I also recognize it means that I will never command a trans-Atlantic 777, but have hopes that I can rise to CA at a regional, and possibly a solid few years as an FO at a major.

So, I will ask for an honest assessment: Too late, too insane?

Cheers, and many thanks for your insight.

Finn

Finn,

It sounds like you’ve done your homework and understand the limits of your career. Anytime people ask this question we simply point out they need to be realistic about their expectations. If you’re good with those prospects then no it’s not too late.

Adam

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Finn,
If I were in your shoes, I wouldn’t waste another minute. The next two years will be the most brutal, studying and flying your butt off until you hit 1500… but once you get through that, you’ll still have a good bit of time to enjoy the amazing career. You have 20 years between now and the mandatory 121 retirement age. You could be at a regional in two years, a major in 6 years and still a healthy 14 years flying making great money and having job satisfaction. Even after 65, you could do contract Jet jobs or less demanding 135 jobs if you are still healthy enough to secure the first class medical.

-Hannah

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Finn,

Welcome to the forum. It is good to have realistic expectations, but do not set them too low either. Assuming you have a college degree, I could easily see you making it to a mainline, or perhaps even a Spirit or Frontier without a degree. That is assuming that you get started very soon.

So no, I do not think it is too late or insane at all, I have met many pilots around your age or older who were career changers. Pleadee check out the FAQ section s there is a detailed post on this topic.

Chris

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Aloha Adam,

A big mahalo for the reply; much appreciated. I actually grew up in Hawaii in Kaneohe near the Marine Corps Base. Sadly, my career took me to the mainland.

I imagine that a slot as an FO with Hawaiian is a very coveted position, and from what I have read they seem to have a relatively young pilot pool. But I have always harbored that dream as well, and would be perfectly happy flying inter-island, as opposed to the longhaul flights overseas.

Do you have any thoughts on the potential to move up to Hawaiian if I were to be fortunate enough to get a slot with Mokulele? I have also looked at Ohana.

Mahalo,
Finn

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Hi Hannah,

A big thank you to you as well for your thoughts and insight. Again, very much appreciated; especially the encouragement about the timeframe for living this dream!

I have actually thought about working corporate aviation, as my background has been in international business, and I felt that it could be a nice fit. However, I was led to believe that getting corporate positions was very difficult (a “we recruit who we know” type thing, and if you don’t know the right people…).

Any thoughts on pursuing a corporate career given my situation?

Thanks again!

Finn

Hi Chris,

I want to thank you for your willingness to share your insight and knowledge with me. I truly appreciate it!

I do have a university degree. And I have thought about Frontier. I was particularly interested in their direct program with ATP where you can go from instructing to the transition course, and from there to an FO slot on the A320; seems a pretty amazing possibility when you think about it.

Do you know if Frontier is currently recruiting out of ATP for this program?

I was wondering your thoughts on making it to United mainline given my situation?

I have flown UA for many years, especially in the Asia-Pacific region for work. I have always been impressed with the UA crews I have been around (many of them were former Continental crews much like yourself), and often dreamed of being one of them.

Thank for the heads-up on the FAQ section; I will do a search for similar topics on age and flying.

Safe flying, and thanks again for your time!

Finn

So first thing to understand with the 135 world is the difference in corporate and charter aviation. Corporate aviation is the jobs flying for a specific company or corporation only. So its being the pilots for Coca Cola, Stabucks, Nike, Lowes, etc. Those pilots only fly the airplanes that company owns. Charter aviation is when the company exists to provide the service but will fly anyone that pays. There are Jet club members that pay in to the company for priority access but there’s also wholesale trips as well. This division is where Net Jets, Flex Jet, XO Jet, FlyExclusive, is. Think of these companies as the uber of the sky. You can take passengers to one location and then repo to another city for another trip. Corporate you would fly the execs of the company to a meeting, wait for it to finish and fly them back, more like a Limo service.
I have heard that stigma, “you’ll only get on by who you know” for the corporate side. Those jobs you often get paid very well to fly very little. Its the dream job for older 135 guys. However, that’s not the case at the charter companies. Their demand for flights is skyrocketing just like the airlines are plus their shortage of pilots is even worse because often they lose pilots to the airlines. If that’s a goal of yours, in two years the shortage will be worse than ever for this side especially, I wouldn’t imagine you having any difficulty securing a charter job (with a strong resume and training record of course).

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Finn,

I actually didn’t get hired by Hawaiian till I was 50 so if you hustle you may have a shot (particularly if you’ve got ties to the islands). While we def have some going pilots, there are older ones as well. In reality Mokulele isn’t the best route. Hawaiian wants to see pilots with turbine time in a variety of environments (not just Hawaii). All the pilots coming from Moku need to go to a mainland Regional before Hawaiian will consider them. As for Ohana they didn’t survive the pandemic and all service has been canceled.

Adam

Finn,

I do believe that the ATP-Frontier program is still recruiting high quality applicants from ATP.

I could see you making it to UAL mainline. I have met several UAL pilots that were hired in their upper 50’s. Like I said before though, time is of the essence here.

Let us know how else we can help you.

Chris

Thank you for the feedback on Mokulele and Ohana. Really appreciated. It is good to know that Mokulele is not the best option for getting to Hawaiian. Sad to hear about Ohana.

Hearing that you were 50 when you were hired at Hawaiian gives me hope. I would love the chance to come home to Hawaii. I noticed that you fly inter-island on the 717. I think that would be the ideal positon to have; as you are probably home almost every night.

Okay, question time… following my time-building to 1500, would I be at a disadvantage if I took a charter job as opposed to going directly to a regional airline? In other words, would I handicap myself with Hawaiian (and other major airlines) if I built time in a non-scheduled airline environment as opposed to a regional airline?

Just trying to chart the best course. But I will note that I am very flexible, and recognize the need to flow with the punches in a career change like this. Have a plan, but be adaptable!

Thanks, as always, for all of the time and insigts. Have a great Independence Day!

Thanks for the feedback on the Frontier program. I find that very exciting to potentially go straight to an A320.

And thank you for the feedback on UAL mainline. I know it is funny, but I have always thought it would be amazing to actually fly with the airline that has taken me so many places over the past decade.

What ATP location do you recommend for being able to get an instructor job? I am flexible and relocate as needed. I was thinking central Florida, but again, am flexible.

Have a great Independence Day, and thanks for all of the assistance.

Hi Hannah!

Many thanks for the explanation on charter versus corporate. I too have been reading that the pandemic has really increased the private charter market, and that things appear to be going strong.

I work with one individual who owns her own IT consulting company. Before the pandemic, she always flew business class with Delta. With the pandemic, she still needed to fly, so she turned to charters, and says that she will never go back. She finds them safer, more convenient (fly in fly out to the closest airport), better service, and has even taken her family on three vacays on private charters during the pandemic. She even says that with the convenience, she finds it a better value too.

At my age, and with my background, I find that charter sounds like a very attractive option. I have had the chance to fly charter twice for work over the past eighteen months, and I found the experience very nice.

Do many people make it a career? Or are most interested in time building to get to the airline?

I read that FlyExclusive FO jobs are 15/13 or 8/6. Does this mean 15 on, 13 off, etc.? Plus, you can commute as long as you live within one hour of a major airport. What constitutes a major airport? And do you get jump seating privileges on other airlines?

And one more question, and this is a silly (truly silly): do most charter operations have a standard pilot uniform? Or, is it something more casual like pants and company polo shirt?

Okay, enough questions (including the silly one about uniforms) for one day. But please know how much I appreciate your time and knowledge.

And have a great Independence Day!

Hi Finn,

I actually do think that flying corporate jets would take you a lot longer to be competitive to get on with a major than if you were to fly for a regional. I don’t have the numbers on how many choose corporate vs regional but you can absolutely make a career of corporate flying.

Yep! That’s exactly what that means.

As for your question about location, that’s all personal preference. No matter which location you’re at, ATP teaches the same program. When you finish the program, if you receive an offer from ATP to come work for them you will be asked to submit your first second and third preferred location (or first available). The demand for CFIs ebbs and flows. Sometimes you get exactly what you want, sometimes you have to wait or accept whichever location you can get. Most graduates choose the location they trained at or the location closest to home.

Tory

Finn,

While Hawaiian does hire pilots from a variety of backgrounds, it’s no question (or surprise) that they prefer pilots who are, you guessed it, already airline pilots. Regional pilots have basically done the job and understand. While again there are other routes, if you aspire to fly for the airlines then you probably should fly for the airlines.

Adam

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Hello, everyone.
I am new to the forum and coincidentally, this was my main concern. Like @Finn I match his status almost verbatim. The exceptions: I am turning 45 this year, I have a Master’s degree (unrelated field), I’m a U.S. Veteran, have just a few hours logged and I’m exceptionally disappointed in my current filed.
What stops me: Finances.
Other than that, every single person who has contributed to this thread has propelled me (pun intended) to move forward. For that, I give you thanks!
@Finn: stay the course, brother. Let’s make this happen :wink:

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Luis,

I’ll make this brief. For most people finances are the single biggest obstacle to this career. I was where you are and looking at being unhappy going to work for the next 2 -3 decades. That was just something I refused to accept. I bit the bullet and it was the single best decision I ever made.

If this is truly something you want to do you have 2 choices, take the leap, or look back and regret that your didn’t.

Adam

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Wise words, sir.
Indeed, I think I’m finding the motivation to take such leap. I belong in the air. Always have. Maybe is time I build my home there…
Thank you!

Finn,
That is absolutely true. Covid was hard on the industry as a whole but the 135 charter side did end up getting a good bump of revenue out of those that could afford it…either personally or for business. Once you fly this way, its hard to go back. The passengers can drive right up to the door of the airplane, have their bags loaded up for them, no security just an ID check and off we go.
So it depends on your end goal. If its the airlines, than no, the charter route is fun and different but it will take you the long route. The reality is the average flight hours you’ll log in a month is 50-60. Compared to at least 90 hours a month at the regionals, the actual time build will take longer. Plus the time you’re building is not seen as valuable as 121 time when you’re applying for majors or LCC later. They want to see at least some prior 121 time, if not they will want you to have double or triple the amount of PIC turbine hours as a guy from the regionals would have. It sucks because I think 135 flying can be much more difficult since we do all our own flight planning, performance calculations and we fly in to some really tricky places but the airlines don’t care because they want to hire airline pilots and you don’t have any airline experience (121).
However, if you think charter is the way you want to go at your age or if you’re even just undecided, I think its still a good idea to try it. Even for just a year. Its much different than the 121 life. You can live wherever you want (some companies are more strict with the major airport part than others but its typically 2 hours from an airport with airline service). The company pays to fly you to work and you get to accrue the airline miles. Once you get there, you are in and out of some incredibly beautiful FBO’s getting free food and relaxing in recliners waiting for your passengers. At the end of the day you go to a nice hotel and get to accumulate all the hotel points and cash in a nice week-long vacation at an all inclusive resort just off your hotel points. The trips tend to be longer (yes, that’s 8 days on then 6 off or 15 on 13 off), but the schedule is predictable with a great ratio of working days, to days off. You can always count on having 6 (or 13) days off when you get home.
The disadvantages of the charter side, the pay doesn’t top of as high as the majors do so your career earnings will be less. $250k give or take is the higher end of 135 salaries compared to upwards of $300-400k at the airlines. You also don’t get jump seat or pass riding privileges on the airlines for personal travel.
Not a silly question at all… depends on the 135 company. Cargo pilots and caravan pilots (flying cargo or sight seeing) are typically the most casual wearing polos and khaki pants. Any of the big charter companies wear professional uniforms in different variations but its company preference. Net jets guys look like the standard airline uniform but their tie has net jets logo on it. Delta private jets used to have black pilots shirts and silver epaulets, we used to have silver pilot shirts with navy epaulets and no we wear the standard white pilot shirt with navy epaulets and a black tie. It really just depends…
Let me know if you have any other questions! Happy fourth to you too!
-Hannah

Luis,
Like Adam said, finances are tough for everyone. Unless you have a trust fund sitting around and want to burn some cash, funding flight training then taking jobs for low wages for years afterwards is incredibly difficult. Its a risk but a risk we all decided to take because the career was worth it. I too haven’t regretted a single penny Ive spent on flying because I go to work every day loving what I do. Its just a choice only you can make… is the career worth the journey getting there?