September 2024 - My name is Dillon, I am starting my first week here at APA. I wanted to share my experiences but also ask some questions, as I am a bit nervous about the program. First, the experiences and a bit about me.
I recently graduated from the University of Wyoming with a Mechanical Engineering degree. Instead of making things easy and getting an engineering job, I decided to take a big risk and answer that one big question I’ve always had since I was 6. Can I become a pilot? So one summer job, a fat loan, and a move to Denver later here I am, giving this a shot.
My first day was on Monday, 9/9. I started bright (not really) and early at 0600 MDT. My first day was like most others first day, starting with a Sim session, orientation, and then flying. Everything went great, until I flew. Two words. Motion sickness! I had the worst bout of motion sickness probably in my life. After an hour or so of bumps I had to tell my poor flight instructor to turn back as I was feeling really unwell. For context, I knew I had a history of motion sickness as I’ve has ~15 hrs of flight time at my college airport at KLAR, and communicated this with my instructor. But this was a different level then I’ve previously experienced. But I didn’t throw up! much to my instructors palpable relief.
Day 2. Similar story, but I was more prepared. I made sure to drink plenty of water, have a nice and easy snack beforehand, take ginger pills, and NOT drink coffee before. Apparently that makes motion sickness way worse. When we flew this time in similar turbulent conditions (more thermals) I felt an improvement, but still unfortunately had to return to field a bit early.
Day 3-4, no flying due to scheduling and weather conflicts, but lots of studying and some Sim time. I made sure to get motion sickness bands as a last resort.
Day 5 (today). Lots of studying and praying that the thermal gods will be nicer to my poor stomach for my flight tonight (5:12pm MDT).
Now are the questions:
I realize it’s not even been a full week yet, and this program is HEAVILY advertised as accelerated, but between needing to return to the field early because of my motion sickness, and trying to keep up with the groundwork, I already feel like I’m behind. I know this forum enphasized the importance of taking your elavates and 6 FAA exams early, but due to personal circumstances outside my control, the time for that just wasn’t there. I heavily debated delaying my start date, but training support heavily advised against that. Finally, my question is, should I delay/postpone and tackle as much groundwork as possible before trying again? My hope is this would give me the opportunity to truly understand the content, pass my exams, and double down on flying the airplane when I start again.
Did any of you have motion sickness when you started? How did you tackle it? I’ve read that staying hydrated, not having an empty stomach, and continue flying are the main strategies, and it will eventually go away. But any nugget of wisdom here would be helpful and being nauseous makes learning more difficult with the already limited flight time I have.
What are good strategies to avoid burnout in this program? My strategy in engineering school was to study 10-12 hrs during the weekday (with small breaks here and there) and use the weekend to recover. ATP requires being available 7 days per week for flying (which is absolutely fine) but because of that I’m unsure that my old strategy would work here. What were your strategies?
When did you start to feel truly comfortable in the airplane?
Best advice for newbies like me to be successful I’ve asked many students and instructors their 2 cents on this, and wanted your thoughts as well. My main takeaways so far have been: “take your elavates and exams early”, “be a sponge and learn as much as you can”, “study at least 8hrs per day”.
Dude, it’s been a week. Give yourself some grace and time to adjust. The program is a full-life commitment and while it’s not rocket surgery or mechanical engineering, you should keep a steady study schedule. I found that going in early before my lessons and staying a few hours after to study with my peers helped the most. I also would take a nap after I got back to the apartment and spend a couple of hours after I woke up studying again. Definitely not 12 hours a day, but you will find your groove.
You’re already in the program, with your timeline in place and things being scheduled like your evals and checkrides, so I don’t think postponing is wise or an option at this point.
No experience with motion sickness but I will say that turbulence in a small airplane does take getting used to, but more exposure desensitizes you quickly.
To avoid burnout I at least tried to get adequate rest and distract myself from studying from time to time. I wish I did that more often and slowed down at times to enjoy the process. I didn’t do that enough.
I feel most comfortable in the airplane when I slide the seat back, recline it a bit, and put my foot up on the footrest… 5+ years after finishing the program. In all seriousness, I felt competent and relatively confident after the crew phase of training, but “feeling comfortable” is not something you will experience in airline training ever. Not at ATP, not at your first airline… Just the nature of the beast I suppose.
Study with others and give 110 percent. Take every opportunity to learn something new every day of training. Get good rest and nourishment. And enjoy the process. It goes by so fast…
And remember, just like another mentor on here once taught me, the darkest parts of the cloud are always the smoothest…
I might differ some from Sergey here. It sounds like you have about seventeen hours of flight time. That is a significant amount of time for a new pilot and most people have worked past any motion sickness by then. Flying in little airplanes can be rough, regardless of the time of year. In the Denver area there can be even more turbulence because of the nearby mountains. Thermals will be an issue for the next several years of you flight instruct, especially out west.
I would suggest one or two more lessons and then taking a pause if you cannot get the motion sickness under control.
I’m with Sergey, you need to relax. I understand you want to do well but you also need to settle down a little. But to address your questions here’s my take:
That’s no need to delay. Due to examiner availability, weather and logistics the program is now months longer than it was in the past. That will give you plenty of time to do the writtens etc. It also won’t help your air sickness.
I’ve never suffered from motion sickness, many have and most (not all) get over it. The remedies you’ve tried (and the bands should help). What I can tell you is the overwhelming pressure you’re putting on yourself most definitely isn’t helping. Again I know you want to do well but believe it or not you chose to do this and it’s supposed to be fun. If not this can become a cycle. You stress you’re going to get sick so you get sick so you stress etc etc etc.
Again this is supposed to be fun. If I’m studying and working on something I won’t get burned out because I’m enjoying. If I’m stressing the whole time I won’t. You need to study as much as you need to study. Some concepts come easy, others don’t and require more attention. You’ll have a syllabus, if you get something in 5min, great. If it takes you 5hrs then you need to do that.
Honestly I don’t remember but I think it was when I got to the Crew phase. To clarify I never felt uncomfortable because there was an instructor sitting next to me and I trusted him. The Crew phase we cut loose and I realized I could actually do this. Great feeling.
You’re probably tired of hearing my relax but it’s critical. Other than that stay focused work as hard as you need to. It’s ridiculous for me to tell you how much you should study beyond do whatever you need to do to be successful. I’m a big fan of the power of positive thought. You worrying you’re behind and about your airsickness accomplishes nothing. If this really has been your dream since you were 6 I hate to break the news to you but this is your shot! You started once and stopped (which didn’t get you any closer) and now you’re thinking about it again. When I started I was older and I knew this was my ONLY chance and failure was not an option. If you think it’s possible, well, it is!
I do need to ask, what is “rocket surgery”? Is this a new field? Is it surgery performed ON rockets? Is it surgery on people performed IN rockets? Is it surgery done REALLY fast (like rocket speed)? Are the rockets ill? DETAILS MAN! DETAILS!
Being nervous is okay, it’s change, and for sure a different lifestyle than I’m sure you’re used to; plus the acceleration and how quickly you progress is daunting at first for many. Secondly, you’re one week in, one week - give yourself a break here. Third, while it may seem like a bear to take on the additional credit lending to pursue one’s dream, there are great rewards on the other side that right now seem like an obstacle to get to, it is, but know there are options out there to help ease that feeling - just not right now.
Your first few lessons will be shorter, 1 - 1.5 hours because of what you’re experiencing, plus to really grasp the fundamentals it’s super important to go and debrief immediately following. This will also allow you to retain what you’ve just done and learned. Expect bumps while flying throughout the program. When you did your Admissions Flight was is it perfectly smooth, glass, clear skies?
While we recommend taking the exams prior to Day 1, it’s not a requirement and the ACPP was designed to complete those and the training together. However, completing them can relieve the workload and stress. I would not delay any training due to this motion sickness experience, there are really only a few ways to get over it, and it’s by flying and staying healthy. Make sure you’re hydrating, eating right, sleeping, and most importantly looking outside of the airplane. Many students when they first begin love to stare at the displays in front of you rather than looking outside, where it really matters. This can also trigger motion sickness as screens can be distorted, blurred, or pixelated. I recommend if you’re wearing sunglasses, do NOT have polarized.
Negative to the motion sickness; however, once during my instrument phase I was shooting approaches in ABE on a hot summer day, getting bounced around, under the hood/foggles, and started to feel queasy… it happens. What you do is simply as you’ve done, change the controls over to the instructor, loosen up your clothing, get that fresh air fan on, and breathe; don’t close your eyes at any point and do not try and fly by the seat of your pants.
Studying 10 - 12 hours a day in this field is not going to do you any good. You need to make sure you’re taking time for yourself, as you’ve already learned, this program is accelerated and loaded with events. What I recommend is waking up in the morning, eating something light and healthy, ensuring that you’re drinking plenty fluids throughout the day, and before or after your flight events, take time to yourself, walk, jog, lift weights. I’ll be completely honest, after training events, I would take an hour circuit around the housing, make phone calls, and when I got done, I went for the video games. Ensure you’re getting plenty of sleep. While you’re in study mode, hit the training center on off days, utilize all your available resources, the AATD, instructors, fellow colleagues… the amount of knowledge and support the training center can give is outstanding. You also never know who shows up during those rainy or ‘off’ days.
I was feeling pretty good after a few weeks in the plane during my instrument phase. I have ground tracks of my flights from when I first started to end of instrument and there was a HUGE difference. That was when I started getting ‘comfy’.
Self-discipline, honesty, and work ethic. Be self-discipline throughout the program; come prepared from completing Read/View/Do’s, don’t sell yourself short. Set goals throughout the week, from both the flying and personal side. Work hard, but work smart: don’t overdo the studying, make sure you also get onto the simulator and practice what you’re flying in the actual plane; ask fellow students if they want to do group grounds, don’t hesitate to ask instructors for tips/tricks. In all serious, if you do have a lot of free time, it never hurts to complete things ahead of time.
I suffered from some pretty nasty motion sickness in the beginning too. I flew for about 17 hours before starting the program to give my body a little extra time to adjust and figure out which remedies work best for me.
I still dealt with a little discomfort on occasion in the beginning of the program. This is going to sounds a little rough but, bring a bag and if you get to that point throw up, seal it and keep going! Your body is adjusting and you’ll feel better after the fact and can continue your training. If it continues to force you to return to the field it will delay your program and can become a much bigger issue. If you can push through you need to. Your body will adapt but you can’t get too far behind in the program.
Hi everyone, thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedules to reply, I honestly wasn’t expecting this many responses so quickly .
It sounds like the consensus is not to delay, so I won’t. Hindsight is always 20/20, and I guess I wished I’d given myself more time between moving and my start date so I can focus more of my energy on my flows, maneuvers, and flying. But, such is life. I will make this work.
Good news with the motion sickness, last couple of flights have been WAY better, and I’ve hardly felt sick at all. My personal “preflight” strategy has been to drink some water, eat a light snack, take ginger tablets, and put on my motion sickness bands about 10-15 minutes before the actual preflight. This strategy seems to work well, though the improvement may also be coming from focusing on different maneuvers like TOLs, but hey I’ll take the win. Hopefully I can avoid Hannah’s barf’n’bag strategy a little longer (though I will if I have to, if my instructor is ok with that).
Regarding studying, honestly I’m still trying to find my groove here. At the moment my top priorities in order are finishing elevates days 5-9 (I’ve completed 1-4 before my start date), red/view/do’s, Studying for the PAR (as my current scheduled exam is on 9/30), then completing GIS videos. I’ll do my best to keep up with everything at once, but I figured if I’m running out of time that day it’s better to focus on PAR then GIS. But we shall see, it’s only beginning of week 2 for me.
I guess it’s oddly comforting to know that it took a little bit of time beyond private stage for some of you to feel confident in the airplane. Though in hindsight maybe that was a given conclusion as it’s not like I felt super confident in my driving when I first started out. Though I will 100% take Sergey’s advice when I eventually go cross country (just kidding. Maybe).
A lot of great advice here, I will do my best to follow the advice given here. I’ll start with taking Adam’s advice with keeping a positive mindset.
As far as updates, not a whole lot beyond the big motion sickness win. Last couple of days have been a lot more fun with TOL’s, though notably I’ve still got some work to do with memorizing my flows in the pattern, memorizing GCASH (Glideslope, Configuration, Airspeed, Stabilized, Heels on floor) as well as needing to work on my flare a bit. But I essentially just started TOL’s, so I have some time to get it right (my TOL eval is 10/2). I would try and use the Sim to practice, but it seems our Sim is pretty much constantly in use so it’s been difficult. I’ve been trying to chair fly to make up for it.
Thank you so much to everyone who answered my admittedly slightly panicky questions. If I have time I’ll try and post progress updates if anyone is interested. See ya in the freindly sky’s.
One last question:
I received an email from ATP to apply to the Skywest Pathway Program. I started the process, and while it’s only optional there is a section to attach my resume. Should I wait until I have more aviation experience to put on my resume? Should I submit my resume essentially as is with just my engineering experience, or is submitting my resume at this stage not that important?
If you have a resume you should attach it (if they asked you to). They know where you are in the process. Not doggin SkyWest but they’re simply trying to lock you in early in the process. It costs them nothing and they it gives them a possible leg up on the competition. At this stage there’s no harm.
That said it’s all good as long as you don’t accept any bonuses or Tuition Reimbursement or make any commitments them. You’re a very long way and alot can change in the industry from now till you’re actually ready. You don’t want to limit your options this early in the game.
Dillon, do you wear corrective lenses by chance?
I once had a student who insisted on wearing glasses instead of contact lenses ONLY when we went flying. It really did a number on him with motion sickness the first couple of times we went up.
As far as any pathway programs are concerned I’m in full concurrence with Adam. I know it’s exciting to think about the airlines, but it is really early to decide where you want to go, and ultimately who will hire you. Lots will change and it won’t be too long that you’ll find yourself trying to “work” your schedule to make it out to one of our alumni events .
Keep us posted on your progress!
Regards,
Sergey
Resume it up, if you have one. If you don’t start one. I recommend saving a yearly copy, at the end of a fiscal period, save it as Resume_Dillon_YY, that way you always have a backup. It never hurts to continue to interview and acquire more offers. Where it becomes a problem is if you start accepting monetary or benefits, you will be responsible to pay them back if you don’t fly at ABC airline.
I would also read the contract very detailed, maybe find someone who also reads them and ask them to go over it with you if you have questions.
Ignore that email right now. You’ve got a lot more pressing things to be thinking about getting acquainted with the program and flying then trying to plan out your future. There is absolutely no rush for those kind of pathway programs. They will be there when you finish the program when you have time to thoroughly research your options and make the best decision for your future then.
As for the motion sickness, I know it’s not pleasant but have that conversation with your instructor on the ground. Have a game plan of how you’ll communicate when you start to feel queasy, transfer of controls and worst case scenario if you get sick. It’s not fun for either of you but I’m sure they will understand and appreciate your willingness to push through and keep the lesson moving forward if you can.
Hey Dillon! I’m so sorry you’re experiencing this airsickness. I’m planning when to start flying lessons and it’s nice to know a little bit about what it’s like at first, thanks for sharing. I bought 3 demo flying lessons on a private plane to see if I’ll be scared or get airsick too. I did this to see if I would have the same issue you’re having but all I felt was fun. I hope you can handle what you’re going through quickly, I’m sure you will.
I do wear glasses, yes. I never really thought whether or not my glasses were the problem or not, but either way I no longer have contacts that meet my current prescription. And knock on wood so far my motion sickness is a lot more tolerable then it was.
Regarding the pathway program, I should’ve clarified that I currently have no intention of signing anything with an airline. Half the reason I’m at ATP is to maximize my job options. There was a virtual Skywest event coming up that I wanted to attend, but the requirement was to at least apply to there program (I forget if I needed to be accepted or not). I figured if I was already wanting to apply I my as well give the best impression with a resume, but in the end I decided to hold off on even applying until I’m more settled in the program.
Thanks for the well wishes! So far I’d say it’s a healthy mix of intimidation and fun, but definitely getting more fun as time goes on. If you start getting motion sick at any point, let me know because I’ve got lots of remedies .
Let me know if you have any questions about what to expect, I’m only in the later half of my second week but I’ll answer what I can!
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