Thank you Chris, Tory and Adam for these super helpful and thoughtful responses. Get trained and get hired…I like that…that’s the current focus!
As stated above, base can be a factor but PIC is everything right now. With SAN being over 5 years for CAs, I’d suggest FO ERJ and enjoy SAN while you can, then upgrade into the CRJ when it becomes available - and commute. Should you get “stuck” at SkyWest and hit that 5 year mark (though this number will vary over time), transition back to the ERJ in SAN. This gives you a glimpse of both worlds and I have many friends who upgraded into the other jet. You could also stay on the ERJ and wait an extra year to upgrade and take LAX. This is all assuming that you NEED to stay in SAN. If you don’t, then I would suggest moving to a more junior base. There are so many base/aircraft options that it is easy to make things work. And as for bases, you have the ability to change that every month at SkyWest. It’s very flexible, but these things often change over time. No one can predict seniority at a base or if it will even exist in a few years.
I didn’t realize I could flip between aircraft when upgrading, thats helpful. I do need to stay in San Diego for 10 years until my daughter is college age. I’m divorced and relo means leaving her, which isn’t happening.
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Yeah I believe it’s a 2 year seat lock when you first start as an FO, but that doesn’t apply if you want to change type for upgrade (so you’d only be locked FO to FO). And when you upgrade, it’s a 1 year seat lock in type.
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Andy,
Just keep in mind that you are narrowing your career down to one specific airline. What if SkyWest does not hire you? What if they close the San Diego base?
Chris
Hi Chris,
I’m not fixated on Skywest and I understand that things can change. Since I now know that becoming a regional captain ASAP is very important to getting hired by a major, I might target a different regional. I’m in information gathering mode.
I appreciate all these awesome perspectives, thanks
Andy
Sorry for slow response, In last 2wks of training.
So I can’t say this will always be a thing, but this is what’s happening now.
SkyWest allows you to Upgrade to either aircraft. Some ERJ pilots are upgrading to CP in the CRJ to get that PIC time 6-24m sooner.
Now obviously their can be downsides to this because the ERJ is highly automated while the CRJ is a lot more hands on. Also, you would have to see what bases the CRJ is at. Basically it makes the training and transition to CP harder (But its an option that gets PIC time faster).
Chris
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Update:
- Got my first line this September!
- Footprint: Started ATP/CTP April 12th - Finished Training July 7th - Had Reserve Line for August - 100hrs in the CRJ Aug 27th - My own line next month!
ERJ side training side I hear is “smoother” but their reserve wait is a little longer. I have 3 friends taking 3 months of reserve before getting a line. (That being said, winter is coming which cuts down on some flying and available lines).
So far my interaction with almost all Skywest employees and flight crew has been overwhelmingly positive. I have made lots of new friends in the industry and most are happy to teach you something new and answer questions.
Would 100% recommend SkyWest to pilots working their way to 1500tt. IMO they will always be a solid choice; regardless make sure to do homework and look at multiple airlines and decide what works for you and your timeline / financial needs.
Chris
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Chris,
Thank you for sharing your experiences with us, I know we all appreciate it.
I am glad you are happy at SkyWest!
Chris
Update: Well… That was an awkward year!
Status: Still at SkyWest & still an FO.
Pre-Covid 2020 had me on track to “easily upgrade” to Capt in the CRJ by the end of 2020. haha
COVID caused all flying to be significantly reduced. On the CRJ I went from flying about 90hrs / month, to averaging 40hrs / month.
Efficiency has also been reduced. Alot of 4day trips, barely over min guarantee and have long sits (12hr day with a 3hr sit between flights). These stink because its harder to pack enough food, some small airports don’t even have food / drink, and its just brutal to be on duty for 10hrs but only get paid for 5hrs. This is mostly due to the Majors planning our flights. Due to COVID many Airports only have 1 arrival and 1 departure each day and they are 3 hours apart… guess what, your sitting in the airport in between those flights. But at least we are flying.
So as of today I have 2497.3 hours… and about 300ppl ahead of me for upgrade.
SKW is very good at keeping their cards close to the chest. Currently SKW is finishing training for all the Upgrade Pilots & New-hires who were sent home from training last year due to COVID. It has not been made official when hiring will start again, or if new Upgrades will be awarded.
I saw my pay cut almost in half ($75k-100k to $55k) good news was I was able to keep my Job, my Base, & my Line. Others were not so lucky. But it was also strategic. I chose SKW because they are a large, diversified company, with a good portfolio. I chose a large JR base that was unlikely to ever be closed and where I could quickly gain seniority. And I chose to fly the CRJ for seniority as well.
I think this past year highlights the need for pilots to be financially savvy and really try to analyze career moves. Look beyond the Bonus & “Flow” agreements; Listen to quarterly Company Earnings Calls. This is an industry where Pilots retirement funds were gutted or 1/4 of pilot demand can be wiped out in a matter of weeks. Many variables that determine our careers success are out of our control, it’s important to mind the ones we can control.
Although it will probably be a slow improvement; I hope everyone a better 2021.
Chris F
PS: I miss GA flying sometimes. My favorite part of this job is flying into places like KCOD or KSHD on a VFR day. Get to enjoy all the mountain views and do a nice pattern to landing (way better than 40nm straight in to KORD).
Speaking of KCOD, took me over a year before having to do a Go Around! Got Wind Shear Caution and then a 40kt wind change on short final. Was a lot of fun and good experience.
Every pilot should always practice GAs via chair flying and give a good brief / dry run for approaches where they are more likely to happen or are complex so both pilots know what they are doing. The Go Around is not done that often and because pilots get rusty at them they are a serious area of vulnerability.
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Chris,
Thank you for sharing your perspective. Arguably the pandemic impacted the industry worse than any event prior including 9/11. As a union rep what should be a somewhat casual volunteer gig has practically become a full-time job trying to be “creative” and help navigate and help the pilot group get through this with as little damage as possible. What’s struck me most is the range of attitudes. Some have taken this all in stride and others have been devastated. As I often say it’s about expectations. Many pilots (particularly the younger ones) have been very fortunate having a very seemless path in their careers. When the pandemic hit many felt like they’d been sucker punched and took it very hard as they never saw it coming. While I would never say I told you so, I have been saying for years this can be a volatile industry and there are no guarantees.
You’re absolutely correct a pilot needs to do their best to be well informed and try and make smart decisions by sometimes all the planning on the world won’t save you. That’s one of the reasons I truly believe you need to have a passion for it other wise it’s just a job and when something like this happens people start asking what was I thinking?
That all said we will recover and it sounds like you can’t through this relatively unscathed. Thanks again for your report from the front and please continue to keep us posted.
Adam
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Love it when old threads that I’ve not seen get updated like this. So much to think about for aspiring pilots, especially those (like me) aiming for the majors via the regionals. Thanks to everyone years ago and now taking the time to unpack this from multiple angles.
cg
Great update! Out of curiosity, which base did you get (ORD?) and how is the commute from SAN?
Adam,
Very true about Regional pilot attitudes. As you know SKW doesn’t have an official Union… and there are 2 ways to spot a pilot, they’ll tell you… or they’re always complaining haha.
We see perspectives from all over the map. I was actually thinking of running as a Rep but figured I could use a little more time at the company… also don’t really want my hair to turn grey just yet. Next cycle maybe.
I got to see/experience aviation life through my father and almost every 10yrs something volatile happens. I tried to time it but waited 2-4yrs too long for the “perfect” timeline. No big deal, life goes on.
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Chris,
Enjoy the journey.
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Scott,
ORD since I started. Probably stay here till I upgrade or possibly change airlines.
I honestly don’t know about that commute. I rarely fly past DEN. Most commuters are having a hard time with fewer flights per day. But some are easy to get on because of many open seats. I can say SAN to ORD would be one of the longer commutes I’ve heard of.
DEN & DFW are both growing bases so I would probably consider those Bases for easier commute.
Chris F.
Chris,
Thank you for the update. It has been a challenging year, but things seem to be getting slowly better for all of us.
I really appreciate you coming back to the forum and checking in, thank you.
Chris
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Hello,
Thanks for the great info! I was just curious how senior Houston is for Skywest as FO. Any information would be great.
Thanks,
Josh
Josh,
As of now it seems to be the most JR base, but that can change quickly since its medium size. About 70 CRJ FOs, At just under 2yrs seniority I’d be in top 45%. ORD has more than 2x the CRJ FOs and I’m top 50%.
Chris F
Thanks for the input! Hoping to work my way there one day.
Update: Still weird times, but flying a lot again. Only downside is having to wear a mask outside in 90degree weather.
Status: Still at SkyWest & still an FO… Now a Designated Mountain Airport pilot.
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Regional flying at my Airline is almost back to Pre-Covid levels. Business travel and connecting flights that support international flying are still slumped.
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Hiring has started back up and I believe we received over 500 application in last 2 months that have be gone through to varying degrees. Upgrades have also started back up at a steady pace.
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Stick to getting those hours and apply early. Recruiting staff is in full motion and their are certain bonuses available; I believe the tuition reimbursement program is included in that.
My status:
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I’m eligible to upgrade with about 1400hrs in the CRJ. There are about 300 people senior to me with bids in. The only way I can upgrade fast is by taking 1st Available Upgrade, in Any Base. This is what I bid for and I’m guessing my number might be called at the end of this year or early next year if things continue to recover (2.5-3yr upgrade on CRJ)
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Edit* Being at 2700-3000hrs I have to admit there is a conflict between sticking with SKW for PIC time VS trying to move on to a Major like Spirit, Frontier, JetBlue and others. To get to a Legacy or Fedex/UPS, 99% of the time you need PIC time. I love being at SkyWest but I’d be dishonest if I did not mention this is on the mind. That being said, if for some reason I can’t move on, SKW is a great place to settle down at and live comfortably. Networking is still huge and letters of Rec are key to moving on.
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2 months ago I passed the Designated Mountain Airport pilot training. Its a volunteer program that flies to Aspen and Eagle. SkyWest is the only Airline allowed to fly into Aspen and this group of pilots are the only Airline Pilots allowed to fly there. It requires passing ground and sim training, followed by multiple flight checkouts with a Check-airman.
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As a DMA pilot, I no longer bid in PBS but rather bid Hard Lines with about 12-14 FOs & Capts in ORD. It’s all seniority based and whoever bids the same line is who you fly with the whole month (minus trips that are dropped, traded, or picked up).
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Being DMA does have the perk of extra pay, but one downside is that the schedule is not as easy to adjust.
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Probably the coolest part is the thrill of flying into & out of these airports. Arrival, Approach and Departure have 2-4 different procedures depending on what is going on. All have to be memorized and briefed. The common phrase in training is "Put everything you previously were taught in the “normal airport” box, and now make a new “DMA only” box. I can say that a 3degree Glide Slope and the standard 600-1000’/min decent rate will not work in ASE.
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This isn’t the chart we use, but I attached the Gov LOC/DME approach to give an idea.
i.
On a side note,
the Girlfriend and I have been getting back into GA. We were very close to buying a C170B! Unfortunately prices have gotten crazy ($40k airplane in 2016 is now $90k), so we decided to hold off and continue to rent mostly tailwheel aircraft.
Jess and I were both at SunNFun this year and will be camping at Oshkosh multiple days! If anyone is going, pm me and we can try to say hi.
I hope everyone’s 2021 is going better than last year.
Stay safe and have fun,
Chris F
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Chris,
Thank you for the update. That is one crazy looking approach plate!
Chris