Intro and Some Questions

Hello all,

My name is Jake and I’ve been stalking this site for a couple years, and I think it’s finally time to ask some questions. I’m 34 (not too old!) with some GA experience. I have a wife who’s a high school teacher, and 2 kids, 4 and 6 years old. Growing up, I flew with my great aunt who was a CFI with a C152, and I’ve flown a Bonanza, a Baron, and I’ve taken an intro flight locally in a C172. I live in New Mexico, far away from any professional flight schools. There is a strong GA community here, and a great school for PPL, but I’d have to move to get to an ATP location.

My employer paid for my master’s degree and has me in golden handcuffs for a little more than a year from now. My plan was to start my PPL at the local school next year to be sure that I really want to take the leap, and work on moving to either the Denver area to be close to family support or Texas for higher teacher’s pay and lower cost of living. I know that the sooner I start ATP the better my future potential is, but that has to be weighed against owing $18,000 for a master’s degree if I leave my job too soon.

My plan was to start as soon as I can while my kids are still young, then get into a regional and stay as a regional captain until they are out of high school. This way, I can have enough seniority to enjoy most of the important kid things (games, recitals, etc.). Is this a good plan? How long does it take to get seniority as a narrowbody FO at a major? Would the timing of that work out just as well as being a senior captain at a regional?

Another question: after graduating from ATP and waiting for a CFI slot, can you work as a CFI for a different school in the area? The airports I’m looking at have several flight schools, so I was just wondering if ATP would care if graduates worked at other schools temporarily.

Thanks,
Jake

Jake,

Let me start by saying when it comes to financial decisions, only you can decide what’s best for you and your family. That said, while $18k is no small amount of money, senior Major Capts are earning over $400k a year. Since pilots have a finite amount of time they can work, every year you delay your sacrificing the potential to earn that. Factor in the bonuses the Regionals are paying TODAY (no one knows what will happen in the future), that $18k loss seems much more palatable.

As for your questions:

  1. Your plan is YOUR plan and no one can say what’s best for you but you will most certainly build and maintain seniority faster at a Regional. Further with the recent salary increases and retention bonuses it’ll ease the pay deficiency somewhat. That all said you’re talking about the future and that’s a decision best saved for when the time actually comes as the environment can and often does change.

  2. Not sure why but you’re anticipating a wait to start instructing. There generally isn’t any. Unless you’re talking about waiting for a slot at a specific location. If that’s the case the answer is no. When you complete your training you’ll be given a list of available slots. If one works great, if not and you bypass to work elsewhere then you’ve forfeited that opportunity.

Adam

Jake,

You might find that your plan of staying at a regional for good seniority is not necessary. yes, you will have better seniority at a regional, but keep in mind that you will not be alone in this as other pilots will be doing the same thing, there is a contingent of pilots that for whatever reason, chose to stay at the regionals. Also, regional flying is usually more flights per day and thus more tiring. I always felt that my schedules at the mainline were much better than those I got st the regional.

Chris

1 Like

Jake,

Once you have completed the program, you will be able to teach wherever you would like. There is no obligation to teach for ATP.

The questions that you have about regional vs major are questions that cannot be answered by anyone else but yourself. Once you get to the airlines, you will have a better sense of how long it takes to (fill in the blank) just by talking to other pilots, networking, etc.

I agree with what Chris said a lot. I am a junior FO at Alaska, but even with my low seniority I have still managed to create a decent schedule for myself. I feel like I am working way less than before.

Tory

Adam, Chris, and Tory,

Thanks for your replies! The financial situation is tough, since I also need to plan for a move. I don’t want to waste too much time, but I need to support my family too. I forgot to mention that my wife is part time for the moment since my youngest isn’t in real school yet and we can’t afford child care on a teacher’s salary, so starting now is a no-go.

Thanks for the input on the schedules. That is very helpful advice. Any thoughts on LCCs with direct hiring? Does anyone know how their schedules compare to regionals and legacies?

Thanks,
Jake

Jake,

I believe ATPs Direct Entry programs are really a game changer. This is literally unheard of in the past and offers a tremendous opportunity to fly larger airplanes and get the higher pay rates that go along with that.

That said the schedules really aren’t that much different as far as time away goes. Sure larger airplanes fly further so you’ll have longer but fewer legs. You’ll still have to serve your time on Reserve and can still pretty much count on being gone half the month or more until you build seniority.

The real difference comes when you’re at a Legacy on a heavy which offers the opportunity to fly longer trips due to an extra pilot on board (IRO). For example at Hawaiian we fly HNL to BOS (our longest flight). That trip is a 3 day worth about 25hrs. Do 3 of those in a month and you’ve got your 75hr credit and only work 9 days. Leaving you with 21 days off. Not a bad gig.

Adam

Hi Adam,

Is it realistic at my age (34, not started yet) to expect to be flying a widebody before mandatory retirement?

Thanks,
Jake

Jake,

Absolutely. You’re actually right at the average age when most pilots start this career. In fact some Majors are hiring directly on to the widebody. Keep in mind upgrade to Capt will still probably take 15-20yrs and those high credit trips for FOs go SUPER senior. Meaning while the 777 does fly to Europe and Asia, it also flies EWR to IAH and those would be the trips you’re looking at for a while.

This also means starting NOW.

Adam

Thanks! I’ll keep that in mind as the wife and I decide what our next steps will be.

Thanks,
Jake