The ANG didn’t seem too likely anyway based purely on how competitive it is. They put you on active orders for the first big chunk of time and I would have hoped you would get more hours during the initial training period. It could also tie you down to where your squadron is located which might make your life more complicated than it is already.
I enjoyed the military and want to minimize training costs but I guess when it’s all said and done, I want to be at the airlines and I have already done the service to country part. Although, I would do it if there was significant personal advantage but the government isn’t really concerned with your “personal advantage” haha. That’s not a good reason haha.
The Tricare medical coverage is interesting though. I finished my contract not too long ago and could come back for a year extension I bet. I oughta look at their rates. On the other hand, it would be added complexity and commitment during an already stressful time I’m sure.
This thread has been very helpful for me already. Thank you all so much!
Mason,
Absolutely check into it before discounting. I have friends and fly with more than a few fellow pilots at my major who have kids who went this route.
It is competitive, but in the ANG world, the unit picks the people to send to flight school, so someone is going to go. Each unit is independent, so yes, flying F-15’s off the street in the Florida ANG is going to be very competitive, mostly because you are competing with many Active Duty fighter pilots getting off AD and trying to do the same thing. Guarantee the line to fly C-130’s in Louisville is nowhere as long. I personally have a friend now whose son is being sent to flight school for C17’s right now by an ANG unit, off the street. No experience besides college and “rushing” the unit a few weekends. The beautiful thing about the ANG route is the unit that sends you, gets you. No random later selection that can later derail your plans.
As stated before, you’d be required to do Active Duty time for at least 1-2 years so that they can make you an aircraft commander and load you up with qualifications. But as a newbie…that’s to your advantage. Throw 1500hrs of C-130 time (easy to do, they fly slow, long fits) on your resume along with 500 PIC, and other qualifications like instructor pilot, etc and you’ll be applying directly to a major. All the while pulling down Officer pay, flight pay, housing allowance, health insurance, etc while on your Active duty time.
I’d be confident in fact that if you were sent to flight school by an ANG unit, you’d be at a major faster than through the regionals, with a more assured path. Remember, when you go to apply to a major in 3yrs, you’ll be in a squadron filled with pilots currently flying for all the majors. Nothing like having a plethora of insiders to help you get that final career job.
Anyway, I was AD Navy, but had I known then what I do now, this is the path I would have relentlessly pursued had I not needed help paying for college for the get-go.
Yes this is competitive, but I have to believe with your prior time, proven discipline, you’d have a huge leg up on the general “off the street” 20 something they have to consider.
The work is finding the ANG unit that needs/wants you, that will generally be in the less sexy aircraft, in the less desirable locations. All these units are going to want you to relocate to them, at least during your Active Duty period, so make sure you’re willing to do that.
Living in Louisville or Charleston WV (for example) may not be your dream, but a few years there flying C-130’s could really expedite your career.
Best of luck,
Hobie
That doesn’t sound too bad actually but I don’t know that you can get by with the typical 1 weekend a month thing as a pilot in the guard. I imagine it would be closer to a week, don’t you think? I wonder if an airline wouldn’t want to deal with that. Even if they can’t outright say that’s the reason not to hire you, there are plenty of excuses if they were inclined.
Also if you are excluded from the airline’s roster for a chunk of the month for the guard, do they try to get their money’s worth the rest of the month and you basically end up with no days off. Those would be my two concerns.
While I still don’t believe it’s the best route, I can tell you neither of your fears are warranted. For decades the majority of pilots came from the military and they have not forgotten that fact. I fly with many guard pilots and none have any issue whatsoever getting hired nor fulfilling their service obligation.
The only problem I have seen (which has nothing to do with the company and everything to do with your peers), is on occasion a ANG pilot will get hired, go through training and then take a deployment for a year. By doing this they basically avoid first year pay and a lousy schedule. While this isn’t illegal nor does it violate anything contractual, it will not gain you much favor nor put you in a very good light with the other pilots who paid their dues.
I am going to add my voice to the chorus here that going to the ANG is by no means the fastest path to the airlines, or to the majors. I have never served, but I fly with many pilots that do or have come up through the military. The ANG is certainly a way to go, but it will not get you to the airlines in record time as they tend to build flight time very slowly. I also do not think it is a faster path to the majors. Regional pilots can easily fly 800-900 hours per year and the experience you are building is exactly what the majors are looking for, airline pilot experience. And yes, being a Captain at a regional airlines absolutely counts as leadership experience. The regionals are also full of pilots looking to move onto the majors and when they do, that builds your connections to the majors.
I am in no way knocking the ANG, but I do not feel that it is the fastest or best path based on what I have seen over sixteen years of being an airline pilot.
No, there is no detectable avoidance of military pilots when hiring. Yes they understand that you will have “dual allegiances” for a while if serving in the reserves, but they are getting a known quantity that has been screened at multiple levels.
Once you are a reserve working for an airline, it really depends on the particular airline on how they handle the scheduling. At my airline, they PREFER you to submit your days of military leave before the schedules go to PBS so they can effectively task you around it.
If you don’t know your military schedule or choose not to do this, you can wait until your schedule comes out and then drop trips that touch a military day (without pay of course) so you are effectively reducing your commitment and pay from the airline.
Most ANG/Reserve units that fly a mission like mobility/logistics for instance, will actually have very flexible drilling schedules as they are using the drill system to complete their military tasking, ie fly trips for the military. Therefore you may be in a unit that says don’t drill at all in Jan but plan on flying for us the second half of February. They can put you on orders which is like being on a salary for periods of time, or they can have you fly on drills which is like a daily rate kind of thing.
As another poster pointed out, there are all kinds of pilots with agendas in a reserve/ANG squadron. Some are commuting their airline job via two legs to NYC and would prefer being used by the squadron as much as possible to avoid any airline commitment. Some are more senior and make much more with the airline and/or have moved from the squadron location so commuting to the squadron to fly just one day is a real time and money drag.
Most already have a major airline job and would actually prefer the flight with 1hr flight time as you are not paid by the hour in the military, just by the day. Those that are building time/experience want the 10hr flight time days (yes the military crew duty day can be quite long, no FAA to overlook their shoulder).
Bottom line, the hardest part of all this is finding a unit that you are willing to move to, and will sponsor you to join and send you straight to flight school. If that happens, I believe this is the absolute best route to go. Just my humble opinion. Less stress on your young family as you’ll be making good pay and benefits while logging your time and avoiding the regionals.
If you get to a C130 / C17 and/or Tanker unit and they send you overseas for a few months, you’ll log mucho flight time. If you were to get picked up as an F15 pilot (pretty hard without prior AD time and/or connections in that state) then it’s hard to log much flight time when your only getting 1.5hrs per long flt.
Remember that as a military trained pilot, you can get your ATP at 750hrs. That will be no problem if you go to a unit that flies long flights. By all means though, when considering a unit, ask them “what kind of flight time could I expect to log in the first few years”. They should be forthright with their expectations. They’ll let you know how much they’d expect you to participate going forward as well.
Best of luck and enjoy the adventure!
Hobie
A little late to this conversation (recurring theme in my life), but I thought I would offer some encouragement to you. I was an airline pilot, went into law enforcement for 6 years and am now back at the airlines.
Like you, I got tired of dealing with humanity’s worst side all the time. I know exactly how you feel with the constant emotional stress and tiredness. I left the airlines to spend more time at home with the family but although I was technically home more hours as a cop than I was as a regional airline pilot/sim instructor with an awful schedule, the number of hours I was really “present” with my family was quite a bit less. Back at the airlines now, I realize it is so much easier mentally/emotionally to walk away from the aircraft and leave the day’s concerns there than it was in law enforcement. A bad day at the airline is nothing compared to even a relatively normal day as a cop.
Now I’m at a major airline, my schedule puts me physically at home more hours and it’s more flexible and we haven’t even started to talk about money yet. Combine that with today’s open assault on law enforcement, you couldn’t pay me enough to go back, although I have more and more respect for my brothers in blue who persevere.
Everyone else has addressed the other stuff pretty well, just wanted to provide some input from someone who’s been where you are.
By the way, I was 29 when I went I switched careers into law enforcement and 36 when I switched back again, so you’re not too old by any stretch of the imagination.
I’m late to the party here but thought I’d jump in real quick.
At 27 years old and 5 years in as a police officer I enrolled at ATP under what they called the “Self Paced” program. While waiting for my start date American Airlines went bankrupt. I got cold feet thinking everyone was about to fold and with a 18 month old son at home I couldn’t take the risk, so I surrendered my deposit and walked away.
Later on at 33 years old and 10 years in as a police officer I was still dreaming to fly. As more and more police officers were getting hurt and killed I came home one night to find my five and two year old boys watching tv and my wife an emotional wreck in the kitchen. Very bluntly I was told the emotional strain of worrying about my safety daily over the past 10 years and the 4 years before that while I was a Marine Infantryman in and out of Iraq was just too much.
I enrolled in ATP’s self paced program for a second time the next day. It took me 18 months to get my ratings (minus CFI, I didn’t do too well there) while still working full time as an officer (we did 12 hr shifts, 7 work days for every 14 calendar days).
The major downside to me between the first time I enrolled and the second time was how much more the program cost and the implementation of the 1500hr rule. I finished ATP in March 2017 and won’t lie, there were lean times for my family when I was struggling to find work as a commercial rated pilot without CFI ratings but I did find a way. Currently I fly Part 135 private charter, I have three Jet type ratings, am management at my company, make six figures and hope to finally have 1,500 flight hours by summers end.
My story is by no means typical or common. But, I will say if you and your wife have a solid plan, support each other, and you attack this with the same tenacity that made you successful in the military and the police department you will find a company that will be happy to have you. Typically pilots want the most money for the smallest amount of hours worked so when a servant heart walks in the door and puts the team before self, the company rewards.
PS Don’t feel bad about your degree. I have a Bachelor of Arts in Criminal Justice Administration AND a Master of Arts in Criminology
Arthur, Ray, hearing this from fellow officers is encouraging. Thank you so much for commenting. Now it’s time to buckle down and work some OT and save as much as I can over the next 6 months.
