My name is Michael and I just turned 35. I have always wanted to be a pilot, but never pursued it as I was pretty involved with my career in the marine industry. I’ve been working in the marine industry since I was 15 years old. My skillset is vast in the composite world, but after doing this for roughly 20 years I’m over it. At 35 years old, married with no kids, a GED, making roughly 56K a year working 40 hours with about 16K in a 401K with employer doing a 4% match max. Ill never hit 6 figures where I am and its very labor involved.
I’m looking for some real guidance and potential outcomes. I have zero real flight time, but have had some real sim time on a Military airbase and play flight simulators. My uncle is a pilot, grew up with him as a mentor, but we had a falling out. It is something I have always dreamed of doing and love being in the air on planes. Theoretically say I jump on this, I’m approved for financial aid, do my admissions flight, love it and want to pursue. I currently work fulltime 6:30am to 3:30pm Monday through Friday. Would I have to quit my job to do ATP in the shortest amount of time? The flight school is currently 1.25 hours away from where I live. Furthermore, say I’m dedicated and grind it out. Pass everything with flying colors and start instructing (hopefully twin engine) and get my 1500 hours of flight time. Now everyone says you start regional, then move to majors. But how likely am I to get into Majors (would prefer Delta or AA) without a college degree? is that something I should also pursue while doing ATP? I mean were talking about 4 years of schooling at age 35. Obviously I would like to fast track and move up as quickly as possible to make the most money and bank as much retirement as I can. Majors have amazing benefit packages. 16% from some into a 401K on top of retired medical. So realistically it would be a hit for me to quit my job and just focus on school and ATP, like $3200 a month after taxes hit. Not to mention the mountain of debt Id be taking on. Is this worth it at 35 years old with only a GED? Say I pass ATP and can get hired. I’m currently based in Michigan and own my home which is about an hour away from Detroit International Airport. How exactly would a pilot job look like in that scenario? Would I have to move or relocate? How much time away from home would I potentially be looking at? Would I ever spend time with my wife? I’m trying to get a bigger picture, better understanding of my situation, and just potential before I really start to pursue this. I am very smart, very driven and have amazing people skills. any insight would be appreciated, thank you!
Michael,
Lots of questions (many of which could be answered by visiting our FAQ). I only point that out because you need to know flight training (particularly at ATP and the airlines) involves a tremendous amount of self-study so you’ll want to get used to that. That said here are some answers.
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Only you can decide what’s worth what to you. While none of the Majors require degrees, all still prefer one so you should consider getting one at some point. As for debt IF you’re successful the Regionals are offering bonuses that would literally cover all your training costs so that’s really not an issue.
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With ATP there is no “shortest amount of time” (or longest). The curriculum is fixed and the 7mos footprint is accurate. ATP HIGHLY discourages working during the training. Many are attracted to ATP due to the accelerated timeframe. Well that timeframe comes at a price. It requires a 100% commitment. Failure to do so will most likely result in you washing out, owing a ton of money and having a story for your grandkids about the time you wanted to be a pilot.
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1.25hr come each way will be very challenging. Again to accomplish your goals you’ll have some VERY long days but you’ll also need time to rest and study. Losing 3hrs a day while not impossible is not ideal.
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You’ll only be instructing in the twin if you take the 100hr ME option offered for an additional $10k (and I don’t believe it’s currently offered in Detroit?).
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As an airline pilot you never have to move but it’s YOUR responsibility to get to work. Many pilots commute and we have the ability to jumpseat on any airline for free provided there’s a seat. While commuting isn’t ideal it’s doable. Once you get hired at a Major you might want to consider being closer to your base.
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Most pilots are gone 15 days a month. Senior pilots less, junior ones more. Seniority determines everything at the airlines. The more you build the more control you’ll have over your schedule.
Adam
Michael,
Welcome to the forums. Let’s get to your questions.
You need to take an introductory flight and see if you really like flying small airplanes. Flight simulator is just not the same.
Yes, you will need to leave your job to pursue flight training with ATP. The program is a full time commitment, which is how they are able to complete all of that training in seven months.
You will most likely need a degree to get to the majors. A GED is particularly unimpressive and most majors require college degrees, even if they do not specifically state so. The good news is that there are many colleges that give credit for flight training. College Credit for Airline Career Pilot Students / ATP Flight School
Moving to your base is up to you. Delta and some of their subsidiaries have bases at DTW, but I certainly would not describe it as an area of growth for Delta. Most likely you would end up commuting too and from work, unless you decide to move. As somebody who commuted for many years, I highly recommend moving to wherever you are based.
Let us know what other questions you have.
Chris
Thank you for the honesty Adam. I read your bio and it actually just inspired me even more. Sounds like for someone who was feeling the same way I am right now, it’s pretty cool to read how successful your career has become. I know it’s going to be hard work, but I also really enjoy hard work, especially if it pays off.
So my next question for you would be… is the sign on bonus something you think will stick around? Was that something that was around for you when you went through and did Regionals? They are saying online through ATP as an Ad that sign on bonuses of 150k-175k… which covers pretty much everything, but what kind of contracts or commitment comes with that. Essentially what I’m trying to do is come up with a 5 year plan on paper with an outline of what I should expect if I jump on this. I’ve looked into the financing through ATP with Sally Mae, and with everything including the monthly expense budget, it’s around 124k. Which is deferred until 6 monthes after completion and then you can also do 12 months of just interest payments after that until full payment is due.
My plan would be to take out the loan, enroll, quit job and give 100%. After completion I would then be an instructor, which still isn’t going to pay the bills, which is where the deferment comes in handy. Which at this point I may look into schools as ATP does offer credits towards college for completion.
Do you think going to college during instructing is something that’s doable, or should I wait until I’m into a Regional? And is that doable?
Thanks again for your time
Thank you Chris, I appreciate the feedback. Really good to know about the college credit towards college, that’s a huge insensitive. As far as a bachelor’s degree, is this something you think is doable while also working as a first officer? Also how accurate is the pay scale for Regionals. It looks like 47k for first year and then year 2 bumps up into 6 figures. I make 53k now and pretty comfortable in life as far as bills, but 6 figures especially 2-3 years from now would be life changing. Thanks again for your time
Michael,
When I started flying if someone said the Regionals would be offering bonuses we would’ve said they’re smoking crack! Back in the day first year pay was $18k and you needed to pray ALOT just to get an interview. Many didn’t and never went on to careers in aviation.
Things are so different now with the pilot shortage it’s quite literally unimaginable. The fact is if you successfully complete your training and build your time, unless you’re an axe murderer you will get hired.
No offense but I sometimes get frustrated now with how much better things are. Not because I begrudge anyone (quite the contrary I think it’s fantastic), but in today’s environment if a person still has doubts I honestly don’t know what more I can possibly say?
As for how long will this last? That my friend is the only uncertainty. This industry can be volatile and things can change but for now it’s literally the best it’s ever been.
As for college the move is to get your degree online after your done with your training and at a Regional. You can get an online aviation degree with credit for all your licenses and ratings in relatively short time and minimal cost.
Adam
Michael,
It is certainly very doable to get your degree while you are a regional pilot, many before you have done exactly that. I would not do it while instructing, you will just be too busy then.
Chris
Michael,
I’m 35 as well, similar situation for me. No kids, but not married, single income… similar salary to yours. This is something I want to do as well at this age. A serious change in my career and life before I wake up a miserable 58 yr old manager who’s forfeited a life that could’ve been. For me, what’s held me back the past year is income/savings and simply pulling the trigger.
I say do it as quickly as possible bc time is ticking for us (age). If you a have dual income household and your partner is supportive, even better do it now. Your over an hour commute may be somewhat challenging when it comes to training. I’d suggest sitting down with instructors/trainers at the location and having a conversation about that commute and if they think it could pose any potential hardships.
I appreciate the response! I hear ya man… I was lucky (and cursed in a way) to have young parents. Don’t get me wrong, they did it right. Highschool sweet hearts, got married, bought a house, mom waitressed but dad busted his ass and was the provider. Dad is a tradesman doing aerospace composites. My dad is only 55 years old… still young! Father of 3 boys, all of us have grown up and moved out… adults living and surviving in this world. Not a single one of us has a college degree and just grinding and fighting to simply just live a good life. I want better for my future kids and give solid guidance. I see my father working 6 or 7 days a week still! pushing 80+ hours a week, just to live and survive with NO KIDS now. Don’t get me wrong, my parents lost everything when we were young back in 07 and had to start completely over, but still… That’s NOT what I want for my future. And the path I’m on right now… is a spitting image. Even if I lose it all at 40 like he did… God damn at least I can say I fought like hell chasing my wildest dreams and passions. I have all the support in the world… a little money and a whole lot of GUTS! Fly high little bird
And to follow up… the commute will not bother me. Most of my life I drove an hour plus to work, working my 9-5. Now I’m fortunate enough to be close to work… but I actually miss the drive. I work 6:30am to 3:30pm Monday through Friday with every weekend off. Paid holidays, 4% 401K match on top of a salary. But I bust my ass physically EVERYDAY! Not to mention when I get off at 3:30… I don’t just go home. I am doing side work to bring in extra cash… the fun money. Sometimes work side jobs on weekends too, all depends on the job and pay. Time is money to me and money has to be worth my time. My typical day Monday through Saturday is get up at 5AM regardless if I have to actually work and be productive. I don’t stop until I have to go to sleep. Somedays that’s 9pm… some days that’s midnight. I do what I have to do. Sunday… that’s a day of rest and I don’t care what anyone says… you NEED 1 day to just let go and take time for yourself.
Michael,
This is America and you can do as you like but Id like to caution you regarding your commute.
When the subject comes up people frequently say they’re used to long commutes, enjoy them, have been doing them forever, etc etc etc. You need to understand this is training not work. Further not only is this training this is HIGHLY accelerated training. Your days will be physically AND mentally taxing. You will need time for homework, studying and rest and 3hrs of each of your days will be spent not doing any of those.
Again you can do as you like but if you think ATP training will be like any of your jobs as far as the required work involved or how your commute won’t effect your performance, you’re in for a rude awakening.
Adam
Michael,
1.5 hour commute is pushing it. What Adam said is so true. It’s not a job with a set schedule where you can plan around. You could be scheduled to fly in the evening but a storm is forecasted. Instead you’re instructor asks you to come in short notice in the morning instead and you miss the flight window since you’re 90 mins away. Now you’re a flight behind, where someone who is within 10-20mins got your morning slot and it ahead. This can happen at any time with weather or maintenance.
Could you do it? Maybe… will it be setting you up for success in the program? Absolutely not. Your call though.
Hannah
I cant say enough how much I appreciate the feedback. Especially the harsh reality aspect of it and the fact you’re not just sugar coating it. Especially you Adam. No disrespect to anyone here, but I value your opinions and words very highly. I understand the commute will not be easy. When I take this on, its going to be what I live for until I’m done. I’m going to do a discovery flight at the Detroit location and talk everything out with a rep. I could always crash at my parents if needed, which is 30 mins away. I could always grab a motel on a late night especially if I’m due back in the morning. I do have avenues. Ideally Id like to spend as much time there as I can. Even do my studying there if I could. I’m not 100% sure how the weekly schedule or routine goes there. I know they don’t offer housing though.
As of right now, I just need to talk it out with a rep. I’m thinking I might actually do my PPL close to home (7 mins) after work this spring/summer and bang it out. Should cost me around 15K. That would at least put me in a shorter program to go commercial and save me a lot of money on the loan front. Id like to still start in the fall if I could though. I’m naturally a leader… I’m organized and I’m usually always two steps ahead. If I’m scheduled for an afternoon flight… Id like to be there say 7am and study and do whatever I have to there if I could. I want to always be readily available if need be. but on my down time, I’m gonna hit the books.
Once I’m CFI, which hopefully I can land in Detroit because I do want the access of coming home and seeing my wife. But I will be there 6 even 7 days a week if I have to. Its not about the money either. Its about retaining the teaching others to be better and proficient. I want to go cadet program and pave a way for myself. I do want majors one day even if I am only a FO for years. As long as its building blocks to a future, Ill put in all the time and effort. I just need a road with someone willing to give a little guidance. NOT hold my hand, just be real with me and give me paths.
Thank you all for the feedback as I truly appreciate it. I will keep you updated with my flight, talk with Detroit ATP, local PPL timeline.
Michael