Reality of getting hired after ATP Flight School

Pete,

The Ryan Air incident is a classic example of how labor unions can be much stronger in the US, even in today’s environment. As pilots, we work under something called the Railway Labor Act, which prohibits companies from having different contracts with different bases, like Ryan Air does. In the US, all of an airline’s pilots work under one contract, regardless of where they are based.

Chris

Chris,

About 8 years ago I had a DUI with a refusal and had to pay a ton of money, lost my driving privileges for a year, but haven’t had any type of infraction since then. After a few hoops to jump through, I was able to receive my first-class medical and now I’m three weeks from my PPL check ride. I plan on going straight to the next step and getting on the fast track to flying professionally. I have my financing setup for ATP School and class picks-up this April. I’m gung-ho about this school and diving-in head first, but have some reservations regarding my past driving history. If I plan to fly for RAVN Alaska to build my hours after graduating ATP school, what type of set-backs, if any, should I anticipate? I figured I would consult you and Adam before signing-up for $55K. I really appreciate your input and value your opinion and direction with this decision.

Respect,

Tyson

Tyson,

DUIs are certainly not a good thing, obviously. But, in today’s hiring environment if you have an otherwise clean record, I think you will be able to be hired at the regional level. The majors might be a different story, it will really depend on how clean your criminal and FAA records are, along with how well you interview and can own your situation and explain how you have grown and learned from it.

Chris

Tyson,

As Chris said DUIs are not a good thing (young or otherwise) and also as he said in the current environment (as long as you do well in training AND have no other issues) you should have no problem getting hired at a Regional right now. They need bodies. Again to second Chris the Majors can be a different story. The idea is to put as much time and checks on the plus side to counter the fairly large check you have on the negative side. Right or wrong luck may also have something to do with it. I have a friend who’s on the hiring panel for a Legacy carrier in the US. His brother was killed by a drunk driver. If someone shows up with a DUI in front of him they’re done, end of story.

Adam

I’m in the same boat as a lot of prospectives having a kid, mortgage, etc. My question for those that were ATP flight instructors is how long did it take you to accumulate the 1500 and what was the instructor salary like? I can only afford to take so much of a hit for so long I come wise.

Stephen,

It took me two years to get to 1500. I know other instructors that were able to do it in 1.5 years. Here’s a breakdown of instructor pay: https://airlinepilot.life/t/how-much-does-a-flight-instructor-earn/8061

Tory

Thanks Tory, I’m curious of how easy is it to get to those upper tiers since you may have to do the grounds classes? Seems due to other responsibilities you could be limited and not able to just take guys flying whenever you want?

Yeah. It’s hard to get into the top tier. First, you have to have at least 3-4 students, which you don’t have much control over. ATP tries their best to keep their instructors loaded with a full student load. When I was there the minimum load was 3 students. I heard it was recently changed to 4. Ultimately, it comes down to work ethic and time management. You’re right, ground and sim also take up a lot of time. If you’re students have good independent study skills and you have an efficient ground strategy, it is possible.

For me, I had to cap myself at a maximum of 20 hours of flying per week. There were times when I did more, but I was unable to sustain that amount of flying. Knowing your own limitations is important. Remember, it’s not a race. If you can fly 25+ hours a week, good for you. If not, you’re better off finding an alternative way to make ends meet.

Tory

1 Like

Hey will, just wanted to check in with you to see how it’s going for you. I’m specifically interested in your journey simply because I’m 30 now and I see that’s when you started too. Nice seeing someone else starting at the same age with similar goals. I’m also starting from 0 time. Would you say you were able to “keep up” and absorb the Material pretty easy? What have been your hardest struggles so far? Hope you’re doing great. I also plan to attend in Atlanta come this January. If you decide to stay and instruct for ATP maybe you could be my instructor! Take care and Fly safe, bro.

1 Like

I have a few questions because im only 14 and am scared for the future of airline jobs.

  1. Will it still be easy to get a job with a regional airline 10 years from now.
  2. Will the pay of pilots go down within the next 10 years or continue to rise

Evan,

First I’m sorry but you’re below the min age to participate in this forum. However a couple of quick answers won’t hurt so:

  1. All forecasts predict the pilot shortage to continue for some time. Whether something will put a snag in that within the next decade is anyone’s guess so there’s really no point in worrying about it. That said while it may or may not be as easy as it is now, there will always be a need for good pilots.

  2. Again I have no crystal ball but I honestly can’t imagine salaries going too much higher than they are now. The airlines raised them to attract new talent and it seems to be working. Frankly if $60k to start and $300k+ isn’t enough than I don’t know what is?

Adam

This place used to be good. It is a total gamble with instructors. You will either get someone who cares about your success or someone who is just there for time build. While this may be obvious, you would expect there to at least be a preflight, the flight and a nice debrief after. You would also expect a CFII to show up to a scheduled flight simulator to critique you and go over your weaknesses. There is practically no ground school whatsoever.

I was given nothing besides a flight and a few notes online. No preflight whatsoever. This program is a lot more disorganized than it used to be at this location and many of the current students would agree. There have been various times when I had only flown 1 time in one month. Very few people can become proficient in an airplane and checkride ready while flying 1-3 times a month. I am not saying that all locations are bad… or even that the company is bad (there are a few people willing to help you and work with you). There is a new program (sounds promising) that is being put in place, but I highly doubt that it will be standardized within the next few months. If you want an instructor change, prepare for there to be a lot of questions, issues and “we can’t do that for you, you must finish with your current instructor”.

Be careful if staying in student housing. There are “add-on’s” coming in and out all of the time. I had several things stolen from me, which was unfortunate. Some of it was toiletry items and other were shirts/hats/food. On a tight budget, having food stolen is a huge deal.

It is a quick program, so if you feel that you want to gamble and can get through with minimal help, than this is your program. I cannot recommend this current location (Raleigh) and I would really take time to evaluate your options. I can say I made a lot of great friends, and met some really cool people despite everything. Again, this is the opinion of one student out of many.

Be careful with what school you choose. Really go in prepared to ask a lot of questions and make sure you choose an instructor off the bat who is right for you. (This is a review I posted somewhere else).

If you can make it through the program, you will definitely be able to get a job after. I’ve seen fellow classmates make it all the way through.

One to three flights a month? That’s tough to wrap my brain around. Can you elaborate on the reasons for such a delay? Mx, weather, etc.?

This entire post is disheartening and hard to fathom.

I hope you expressed your concerns to lead instructor(s) and the folks in JAX. None of what was written there is acceptable, regardless of location.

Matt,

As you have very real concerns, I strongly suggest that you address them with management, going all the way up the ladder if need be.

ATP is like any company, bad apples do sometimes get into the mix, but they cannot address the issues if they do not know about them.

Chris

Matt,

The story you tell is more than unfortunate and while I appreciate you sharing I wonder how much “noise” you made while it was happening? You after all are the customer and invested a considerable amount of money. ATP can’t fix what they don’t know and if I wasn’t getting satisfaction I would keep going up the food chain until I did.

You don’t tell us whether or not you completed the program?

Adam

Hey Chris, Im new to the site and I’m really interested in flying commercial for a career in my future. I’m not real sure on what to major in as I’ll be graduating High school in May. I’m dead set on becoming a pilot and determined. If you could id like to speak more about this in a private message or even I could give you my phone number. Thanks in advance - Alec

Alec,

It’s passed Chris’ bedtime but he’s not going to call or pm. The purpose of this forum is for pilots to share their thoughts and questions so we can all benefit. Feel free to post whatever you’d like to discuss.

Adam

Okay, nice to know. I just need a little advice on what to major in? I was thinking aviation of a bachelors degree to learn more and it would also benefit more when applying to fly commercial with the major airlines. Being if I have a degree in aviation vs someone having a degree in business they’d look more towards me. I plan on attending Delta State University for my Bachelors, but I want y’alls advice on schools as well.

Alec one would think that and it sounds logical but the reality is the airlines really don’t care what you majored in. I’ve participated in hiring at both a Regional and a Major and can tell you with certainty an aviation degree will not benefit you at all.

Further, should flying not work out for you (either by circumstance or choice), there’s really not much you can do with an aviation degree. You’d be better served to major in something else that you enjoy as a Plan B or even a second career or business to use in the future.

As for schools that really a decision for you and your parents based on whatever your priorities are. As long as it’s a legitimate college or university and you do well you’ll be fine. The airlines are much more interested in hiring skilled, qualified pilots than where you went to school or what you studied.

Adam

1 Like