Still not sure you should start?

This is insanity!



This is definitely fueling the motivation! Though not doing it only for the money lol.


I’ve always said (and maintain) this is not a job to do for the money. Regardless of the shortage the industry can still be volatile and I know too many pilots who have bailed as soon as things get a little tough.

That said, there’s definitely nothing wrong with getting paid and these new proposed pay rates definitely make the expense and sacrifice far more palatable. Back when Chris and I started first year pay was $18k, there were no hiring bonuses, no Tuition Reimbursement and most important there simply weren’t that many jobs. Transitioning to a Major wasn’t a question of when but if ever?
The industry was still recovering from 9/11 and pursuing this career really required a strong desire and a leap of faith.

In my mind with all that’s going on, IF someone has the desire it’s really a no brainer.



I saw this too. What!! There’s potential for a super senior LCA to make $427/hr at a regional? I gotta be missing something, right? I would have thought the regionals would kick the bucket before they paid that much…


My dad actually texted me about this as was like “see you at Envoy?” I think he made like $20k/year the couple years he spent at the regionals and even he was bewildered by these numbers.

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This is exciting, I’ve heard from the grapevine that regionals are bleeding pilots and I was getting a little concerned that in a few years there might not be many regionals to choose from… This is a good sign if I’ve ever seen one that they will be able to do a better job at retaining pilots. (granted, pay isn’t everything :joy:)


Before everyone gets too excited, there is a problem here. Sustainability. While it’s very encoraging for the short term, there’s simply no way Regionals can afford to pay these salaries long term. When I was at Xjt years ago they expanded rapidly, needed pilots and we were the highest paid Regional pilots in the country, and it was a fraction of these salaries. As soon as things quieted down Continental looked for cheaper alternatives and now they’re a shadow of their former selves.

The Regionals will pay the money now because they have to but trust me they’re looking for alternatives. Personally I do not see these salaries remaining indefinitely.

To me the point is to take advantage of what’s going on now.



I’m a bit skeptical too. Don’t get me wrong, it’s amazing to see. I’d love to take advantage of such incredible pay increases. However, it’s not sustainable. It’s a band aid to try and attract more pilots in the short term.

I remember when trans state airlines came to my training center. They were preaching how stable and financially independent they were offering $70k sign on bonuses. Well they went out of business a year later. Just a tale to always be cautious when you see big money flying around. Typically there is something else going on behind the scenes and using money to grab at pilots.


From what I have heard from my friends at Envoy, this proposal is an attempt to keep pilots from leaving. Envoy has been losing an average of 9 pilots a day or 650+ captains in the last six months. Giving pilots a seniority number at American wasn’t enough.

I’ve also learned that the proposal includes a clause that these rates are at a 150% premium and are effective until 2024 with the ability for a possible extension. So, that leaves a possibility for the rates to be potentially reduced? We shall see.


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From an Envoy insider, the premium rates are only till 2024, after that we will see. But, for the inquiring new comer, a starting pay of 60/hr is a pretty good pay rate to live out your first year as an FO. Once you get 750hrs, you start making captain pay but you will have to upgrade.

Sustainability: as an economic, finance and admin BA i Can tell you, not having the man power to man the flight is more harmful than sustaining the new rates. Again, I’m talking about the base and not the 50% till august 2024 rates.

Now if you are skeptical, you always have other options like spirit and frontier, BUT, conditional that you instruct for ATP.

Just my 2 cents



@Chris as much as you are able/willing, will you share your thoughts on the pending United contract/pay upgrade?

What would be the reason a pilot would not approve this?

Can you share any of your thoughts as much as you are permitted to?

I am interested in the inner workings.

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I am free to share whatever thoughts I have on it. I will be honest, I have been with my kids all day and have not had a chance to really look at it. At first glance, I would like to have seen higher pay rates, but I would probably feel that way no matter how high they were.