Taking the wind out of the sails a little bit

Everyones got their opinions. This guys seems a bit jaded towards atp. He mentions that atp requires an associates degree. Is that true? In speaking to admissions and see things here I didnt see that as a prerequesite.

Any other thoughts on his (lack of) a recommendation?


Yes it is one of their requirements, but it’s either that or 2 year relevant work experience.


As you said everyone has an opinion. Personally I found the video laughable as he contradicts himself throughout but everyone gets their 15min of fame these days so congrats to him.

Yes, as he said, ATP requires either a degree, equivalent work experience OR your PPL and also as he said “that’s probably a good thing”.

I guess my question is what exactly did he say that’s causing you to question the your decision to attend or not because frankly I didn’t hear it.


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I did notice the contradictions as well, what worries me is the $1000 loan payment vs the 30k a year. How do you get over that hump? How do you manage a regular personal budget, living expense and that albatross?


If you notice there’s a whole lot of “almosts, abouts, and kindas” to make his arguement. It’s nonsense. First off starting pay at the Regionals is closer to $40k than $30k ($38k average) and climbs yearly. Your loan payment can and will vary based on a number of factors. Could be $1000, could be $700, could be less. Does he mention Tuition Reimbursement that’s available while you’re instructing and your first year? No. Does he mention over $20k in signing bonuses? Does he mention the fact if you really are tight you can defer or make interest only payments until you’re on your feet? I didn’t hear that either. I also didn’t hear any mention of the fact that senior airline Capts make over $350k a year which means every month you delay is almost $30k you’ll never see.

Listen, I’m not here to convince anyone of anything. The training is most definitely hard but it’s supposed to be. Is it better to delude yourself taking 2yrs having your hand held so you can save some money and then washing out of newhire training because you can’t keep up? I don’t think so. The hard is what prepares you for what’s next. Will the first few years be challenging financially? Absolutely. It’s called sacrifice but the rewards are great.

This kid wants you to subscribe to his videos and make sure you know he got to work out in Nice while showing clips from ATPs website. Me I’m just a lowly Major Airline Capt who knows I wouldn’t be where I am if it wasn’t for ATP. Believe who you like but there were 655 ATP grads who became airline pilots in the last 12 mos alone. That’s not “about or kinda”, that’s a real number.



Very well put, Adam. Thanks for the insight.

He really just cited Microsoft Flight Simulator as part of his credentials when he started ATP’s program, that tells me all I need to know right there. He further stated that he had “a lot of previous pilot knowledge”. He had a private license. A private license and “a lot of knowledge” do not go together.

He fails to point out Tuition Reimbursement, fails to mention that airline pay climbs dramatically with captain upgrades or to even touch on what major airline pilots make. Yes, flight school is expensive, but the pay off is huge.

By the way, I find a great irony in that four years after going to the program, he is flying an airplane to Nice, but recommending that people not do what he did. Seems like it worked out pretty well for him.

I think Ryan could use a could dose of humility, it would serve him well in his career.


I’m so glad this forum exists. This kid seems a bit pompous and full of himself. Going through your comments makes things he said in the video even more ridiculous. Just needed to hear it from the pro’s!

This is what I heard:

“Don’t go to ATP. I went to ATP. I was successful. My friends went to ATP. I don’t recommend that you do. If you want to, more power to you. Don’t go. I should know. I value expensive commodities and I get yoked at boutique gyms around the world. Like and subscribe.”

Safe to say I don’t agree.



Ok, I guess I’m a masochist but I was bored and I had to do a little more research on our video naysayer (almost like watching a car wreck). I will not post his name or links because then I’d just be perpetuating the nonsense. But in addition to Tory’s dead on “Don’t go to ATP. I went to ATP. I was successful. My friends went to ATP. I don’t recommend that you do. If you want to, more power to you." he also just made another AWESOME video “Reason’s why you shouldn’t fly corporate”.

Again I shouldn’t even post anything additional nor should this ungrateful air waster get any more of my attention but holy moly! In addition to ranting on regarding ATP requiring a degree and how that’s wrong (even though he agrees with the reason) we now find the only gig this guy could get is as an expat in Egypt (I used to get calls weekly with offers). Then he posts 5 reasons why flying as a corp pilot is such a bad gig:

  1. He complains about flying for a medevac company and how he’s been called in the middle of the night to deliver a heart to someone dying. Ummmm, yea you’re flying MEDEVAC. Sorry people don’t have accidents and face death at times convenient to you.
  2. Being away from home he’s sad and lonely. Well, perhaps if you would’ve gotten a degree and sucked it up for a little while you could’ve gotten a job that wasn’t half way around the globe.
  3. Less stability. There are plenty of really stable Corp gigs but most are here in the US but again they want experience and that degree you keep running away from.
  4. Flight training is expensive… but worth it. Not even sure what to say.
  5. Corp guys have to clean their planes, carry bags etc. Again VERY narrow view of the industry just his based on his very limited experience. Some do some don’t.

I apologize for wasting all your time but I was needing a good rant. I honestly feel bad for this kid. Hopefully one day he’ll realize a) how fortunate he really is and b) that there actually are people who will hear his words and give them some value, and because of that maybe he should give them a little more thought.


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Fun fact: ATP supported and promoted his videos throughout all of his training.

Interesting. Makes you wonder why, after being propped up by ATP, he’s turning his back. I guess negative views get more clicks and likes than positive maybe?

@Adam How do you know/find out he’s working in Egypt? He was saying in some of his videos he’s a world-wide corporate pilot.

My jaw dropped when he cited using MS Flight Sim as part of his experience…I used it a lot too, I’m just not sure flying a 747 knife edge through Chicago will have any relative use once at ATP…

Again, I’m glad this forum exists. It’s such a good tool when you get past the endless questions of where do I start/ career change/loan questions etc…

I like the connectivity between prospective students, graduates and current students.


I got a good laugh out of your knife edge 747 comment. Thank you.


@Chris, do you know of Swayne Martin, did he go through ATPs fast-track program? I know he got in the cadet-program at Envoy Air years ago because he was documenting his program journey.

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From what I’ve heard, he went through University of North Dakota, but he’s done his atp and recurrent training at ATP jets in Dallas


I am not familiar with him.

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This is not his first video telling people to not go to Atp, he has a couple of them.

This guy just can’t figure out what he wants. He started making ATP review videos while he went through the program then supposedly went to work for a “high end” flight school and I unsubscribed back when he started wanted to make his own marketing line and clothing etc.

Not sure why hes got his issues with them now but just another speck in the 7.6 Billion people trying to make a name for themself.

@Brady Brady Swayne went to UND. He helps Aleks over at Boldmethod which have great weekly quizzes to keep your self sharp once yhou get through most of the program.


this is his YouTube Channel : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVT_dmXuWdhwrkuqPG3pFQg

-10month airline pilot, rest of credentials / ATP experience in the other forum.
So, here are my thoughts:

  1. Pilots complain about everything (sometimes good, sometimes it’s annoying). I’ve always found the maker of these videos to be a tad annoying (even when I was considering ATP in 2016-17).

  2. ATP is not for everyone.

  • I did ATP in 12m while working part time. It was rough. I paid 1/2 cash & 1/2 loan (10yr 500/m @ 4-8%). I’m at the airlines 2yrs after starting with about $40k in debt.
  • My girlfriend went to regular flight school and took 4.5yrs to get to the airlines but has 0 Debt thanks to scholarships, cheaper pricing, and taking her time.
  • I have friends who did & did not make it through ATPs program and have (15yr 1000/m @ 10%) loans, and that is something we must make a plan on how to deal with. One friend is not flying anymore. Another got his commercial ratings and ran out of money before CFI School, he worked construction to pay the bills another 6months until our group of friends helped him get a flying job that paid decent and could build hours.
  • The key is ATP is a huge investment and must be taken seriously. And also that we are a small community and should always try to help one another when able.
  1. The average commercial pilot makes about $125-150k / year. I love mentioning the top tier at Legacy’s or Fedex of 350k but lets be conservative when making these financial decisions.
  • Good News! $125-150k is still Upper-Middle Class in the USA and nothing to be sad about!
  • After completing ATP, being a CFI is a grind. Time, Energy and Money wise you will be beat up. $30-45k is a fair estimate for most of the country. (Plan to live on that for 1-2yrs).
  • First year Regional FO, $35-70k. A lot depends on which airline and how much OT you fly. $45k I’d say is reasonable.
  • JR Regional Capt pay is $80-120k, Senior Capt can hit $150-200k.
  • Could also go Corporate or Part-135 for a bit or for life, have friends making $50-100k within 2yrs after ATP (Shoutout to my Quest Diagnostic buddies flying the PC12 and Barons).
  1. ATP has gotten more expensive & during just the 12 months I was training and another 6 months instructing, they changed a lot (6 to 9 month program, order of check-rides, pricing, ect). I could bet training is mostly the same for PVT-Comm, but couldnt even guess for the CFI school.

  2. Points Adam made are all very good.

  3. I 100% recommend ATP as being consistently the fastest professional pilot program I know of. It is not for everyone, but for those who can manage the costs, and have the determination, I cant think of a better option for becoming a professional pilot.