What is the peak of this profession as a pilot, and can a student attain that position if he/she start the piloting training(at ATP) at the age of 26
Jelili,
The peak of the profession as an airline pilot would be flying a widebody airplane, as Captain, on international routes for a legacy carrier such as United, American, Hawaiian, etc.
Can a student attain this starting at the age of 26? Maybe. The airlines work strictly off of seniority and that pinnacle position I described is only available to the most senior pilots. I was hired at Continental at the age of 26 and if everything goes as it should, I will retire as #20 at United. Pilots that were hired in their early thirties will most likely never break the #1,000 seniority mark, meaning that it would be harder for them to be able to hold those super senior positions. Now this does not mean that they will not have a great career, quite the contrary in fact. They will likely be Captains on slightly smaller equipment, but still enjoy great schedules and excellent compensation.
So with starting flight training at the age of 26 will you ever reach that absolute pinnacle? Maybe, but most likely not. However, there is still a world of potential in front of you, I just would not let anymore time slip away.
Chris
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Chris, if you don’t mind me asking, how did you get hired at a major at 26? Isn’t the minimum age for an ATP 25? You were able to jump on a major after only one year at regional? Did you even have time to make captain there?
Your story is inspirational, but seems it may be a special circumstance? Or am I missing something?
Cody,
I don’t mind you asking at all. I had several inside connections to Continental and I pushed them very hard. My father had been a Continental pilot before our strike in 1983 and had remained friends with several of the pilots who had returned after the strike ended, they were all happy to help push my resume along. I had also made friends with several Continental pilots on my own accord who were very willing to help push my resume. With these contacts I always made sure to have nearly instant response time, be extremely courteous and hopefully come across as a like-able person.
We used to have a saying that your friends could get you an interview, but you had to get yourself the job, meaning that no matter who your contacts were, you had to interview well. I was still a first officer at XJT when I interviewed at CAL, so I bolstered my resume in every other way possible. I volunteered on a union committee that served to help other pilots in need, I was and still am on the Aviation Advisory Committee for the Nassau County (NY) Board of Public Education and I stayed active in the aviation community in various other ways. All of these helped make up for my lack of PIC time.
Community involvement is great, but an interview also consists of being able to speak well and articulate your points. I spend serious time and money on interview prep, which was money well spent. Interview prep does not consist of being spoon fed answers, but learning how to effectively convey your points and do so in a way that is meaningful to the interviewers.
I studied incredibly hard for the interview, I knew the regulations better than I have ever known them in my life. I also bought and read a book that had been written by Continental’s former CEO so I could learn as much as possible about CAL and speak the internal company jargon, that was $20 that was very, very well spent. In short, I interviewed well.
Now I know what you are thinking, “this is all great, but your father got you your interview”. While that may be true, I am not alone at CAL/UAL in being hired so young and with so little flight time. I know several people that were hired at the same age I was, some had family connections like I did, others had made their own connections (like I also did).
Keep in mind once you start flying, that you never know who you will meet. As a First Officer at XJT, we had an emergency that the Captain and I handled very well. The Captain did an excellent job managing the big picture and I did a good job providing her with every piece of information she could possibly want, before she even asked for it. Once we got to the gate, our jumpseater (who was a very senior CAL pilot) complimented us both and asked if either of us had applied to CAL. The Captain replied that she was “thinking about it” and I replied that I already had. The CAL pilot then said to me “let me know if there is anything I can do to help you” to which I responded by immediately pulling a cover letter and resume (both printed on cotton resume paper with the watermark perfectly centered) out of my bag and handing it to him. The CAL pilot tool my information and turned it into the Houston Chief Pilot that same day, along with a glowing recommendation. A few weeks later I got the call for the interview, in part I am sure due to that experience, being prepared with a resume, and being eager to get to CAL. That unprepared Captain I was flying with still works at XJT.
One more example for you. Several years ago I was talking to a friend who wanted to get hired at US Airways, a place where I have connections. I told him to email me his resume, fifteen minutes later it was in my inbox. A few weeks later, I learned that he had been in the middle of a workout at the gym when we had talked and I asked for his resume. After we got off the phone, he immediately drove home, emailed me his resume and then went back to the gym to finish his workout. While this was totally unnecessary, it showed me how dedicated and eager he was to get on at US Airways. When I told my USair contact this story he was so impressed that he made it his personal mission to get my friend an interview, which he did a few weeks later. My friend was hired at US Airways at the age of 29 with absolutely my family connection to the industry, he had just happened to sit next to me at a union committee meeting and really impressed me, so when the time came, I was very willing and eager to use my connections and knowledge to help him.
I know this is a very long winded answer, but my point is that if you want to truly excel in the industry, you cannot sit and wait for a job to find you. Bolster your resume in every way possible, make connections (you will know plenty of pilots) and do anything possible to make yourself stand out as a pilot that people want to fly with.
One last interesting fact; during my interview at CAL, I was fully expecting to answer technical questions and questions about my experiences at XJT. Interestingly enough, for a good portion of my interview the questions really focused on my time as a student and instructor at ATP. I was asked about my experience going through such an accelerated program amd how I did in that program (no checkride failures). I was also asked how I handled various situations that instructors encounter. I was not expecting those questions at all and found it interesting that the major airline asked me questions about flight school and instructing, while when I interviewed at the regionals they did not.
Chris
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Cody,
Chris’ story is fantastic and it’s his but I just want to address the other (regulatory) parts of your question. The min age for an ATP is 23 not 25 AND you can get an R-ATP at 21. More important is the fact that the requirement to have an ATP to fly for an airline is a recent thing. Before 2013 all you legally needed to fly for an airline (Regional OR Major) was your Commercial pilot’s license. As a matter of fact I got hired at ExpressJet back in 2005 with 540hrs and my Commercial and when Chris went to Continental I don’t believe he had his ATP either.
Adam
1 Like
Thanks Chris, this is some excellent advice. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain the steps you took in such detail. Do you know where I can find a list of all the aviation related volunteer opportunities in my area once I’m a pilot? How did you find these different organizations that you joined?
Thanks for the clarification Adam. I was definitely wondering when the stricter rules started.
Adam,
Actually, I did have my ATP. Right after I crossed the 1,500 hour mark, I went back to ATP Flight School and got my ATP in the Seminole.
Chris
I did not know that BUT you didn’t have to and that’s the point!
Shouldn’t you be sleeping?
Adam
Cody,
I don’t know where there is a list of such organizations. The union is an obvious one and you will become aware of others as you go through training and flight instructing. I wouldn’t worry about this too much right now.
Chris
I would love to be sleeping, but it seems that some people want to land in Chicago before the sun comes up 
Cody, Chris may chime in and correct me if I’m wrong, but the community involvement element that airlines like to see among their pilots is not necessarily aviation related. While you can approach your local EAA chapter and volunteer with them, it’s the impact on the community that matters and how that projects back on your employer. Find a way to give back that gives you personal satisfaction — whether it’s through a faith organization, feeding the destitute, or becoming a Big Brother. If you’re in Florida, there are a few regional or local organizations that focus on promoting aviation that you can also reach out to. If you connect with your local “airport bums” they may have an idea as well.
Hey Chris, this is kinda late and off topic, but throughout browsing the forums, you’ve mentioned working for Continental. I was wondering what was it like when United acquired them in 2010? Was there any worry prior to the acquisition that the pilots at Continental would lose their seniority and have to start again at another airline? I know nobody has a crystal ball, but in general, how worried should I be about mergers, bankruptcies, or other events causing me to be out of a job if I plan to start ATP next spring?
Jack,
Pilots are protected from losing seniority during mergers or acquisitions by the Mccaskill-Bond Statue, which is a law that requires a fair integration of all union employees. I did not have any concerns about losing my job. That being said, sometimes mergers are done so that redundant positions can be eliminated; in that case pilots would be furloughed in reverse seniority order.
All of the events you mentioned are real concerns and are always a possibility. Of course the industry is doing well now, but things can change. Risk is part of any career, I know people in all walks of life that have lost their jobs.
Chris
Chris,
Thanks for the reply! I think I have a very basic layman’s understanding of what a furlough is. Could you explain what that means? Are you still technically employed by the airlines but without pay and benefits, and eligible to start working again when recalled? Do people typically try to pick up CFI gigs or something to keep themselves afloat? Thank you for your patience.
Jack,
Your understanding is rather spot-on. Furloughed pilots are not employed in any capacity by the airline, but when the airline needs new pilots, they will call people back in seniority order. Most furloughed pilots try to get jobs at other airlines, but some seek other employment all together, it is really up to the individual.
Chris
Jack,
Just to chime in that’s one of the things pilots find challenging at times when it comes to a furlough. Some will look for other flying gigs but if a potential employer knows you’re on furlough they often reluctant because they know you can be “recalled” and many will jumpship immediately. I know furloughed pilots who were asked to surrender their recall rights before another airline would hire them.
Adam
Adam,
Wow, so you really have to weigh wether you want to be without pay but keep you seniority vs starting as a brand new FO at another airline? I can’t imagine how hard that decision would be especially when you have a family and loans to pay off!
Jack,
Sometimes yes. No one said this was easy. Fortunately I don’t see any furloughs coming anytime soon but you never know.
Adam