I’m not so naive as to think that there isn’t fine print, and obviously being a poor pilot would, should and does exclude someone from moving on and up. What is a bit more discouraging is the possibility of being a great pilot with a great record and not having the opportunities that I’m seeing touted.
Adam 
Flow throughs are great, but I sure would not count on one. It is very difficult to determine which regional will be the best even a year from now and the majors are even harder to determine. Bottom line, you won’t know if you made the right choice until after you retire.
Chris
Why would you not have the opportunities? You have to go find them, they aren’t just delivered to you.
Why would you not have the opportunities?
You tell me. The ATP pitch is basically ‘0 experience to major airline pilot in x years’. Obviously there are requirements, obviously there are tests - but nowhere in the collateral material does it explain flow back or flow through cancellations or anything of that nature. And, no, I don’t think that it is (or should be) so simple as getting that first job then resting on your laurels. But I would like to know the truth about what to expect, how hard it is, and so on. I think everyone would.
Show me where on ATP’s website it says “zero hours to major in x years”. It doesn’t. ATP talks about zero to regional in two years, which is very realistic.
We have told you the truth, just read the posts in this thread. The mentors on this forum are known for being incredibly honest and realistic.
Elias,
NOWHERE on the ATP website does it state, infer, mention or infer ANYTHING about being a MAJOR AIRLINE PILOT. It does say “Zero time to Airline Pilot”. Flying for a Regional, while an “entry level” career, is flying for an airline. The website is honest and accurate. You’re simply looking for things that aren’t there. Does Harvard guarantee you’ll be a partner in a law firm? No. Why? Because there are no guarantees some one will ever make it to the pinnacle of any profession. As I said above, that sir is life.
Adam
It’s not on the website, it’s in printed material. Maybe it’s from a regional’s material but I definitely saw a graph with earnings and timing and so on. I don’t doubt you’re honest and realistic but it seems difficult to get full information. I really just want to know everything I can.
I strongly suggest you figure out where you saw that printed material from before just randomly assigning it to ATP. ATP can no more be responsible for what a regional prints than I can be responsible for what you type.
You can’t possibly know everything, that is the point. If you did, you would buy the winning lotto tickets, make the best investments, marry the best person, etc. But at some point, life is about risks and the rewards that come with them.
Sure. And I’m 40 and I’m trying to make a career choice - there’s more information available than I have and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to seek it out in its entirety.
Elias,
With all due respect you seem to be looking for guarantees not information. You’ve asked many questions and we’ve provided you will honest and accurate information. It’s the fact we refuse to blow smoke and promise you you’ll pitch for the Yankees when you haven’t even picked up a ball that seems to have you twisted. Your profile says you’ve made the decision to fly but now that seems to have its own fine print which is fine, its your life. Just don’t shoot the messengers.
Peace out.
Adam
I can see why you’d think that, but it’s not the case. I don’t expect a guarantee and wouldn’t believe one. I’d be perfectly content with statistical histories. I just want a realistic idea of what to expect - it seems very opaque from the outside. Every airline’s PR department is working overtime, the regionals’ flow-through claims are pretty hyped up and nobody really explains the difficulties, just the high-end possibilities. Maybe I’m wrong and I can expect a regional or major airlines’ recruiting department to explain it all to me before I’ve even got my CFI, but it seemed from their promotional material that’s not the case.
The TL;DR is I want the stats. So I guess I’ll have to go find them.
I just want to be clear on something: I like that it’s hard. Most new pilots seem to decry the 1500 hour requirement, I’ve been saying to everyone who cares that I love it. I want whoever is in the seat next to me to be as experienced as possible. That goes for every aspect of this career, period. I believe that every pilot should be the best possible pilot and the more souls they’re responsible for the better they should be - I’m not looking for a handout.
Nobody said you were looking for a handout. What you are looking for is statistics that don’t exist. Everybody’s situation is unique, everybody takes their own path to the airlines. What would be average today will be different in a month.
We have explained the difficulties in depth because we are not part of any PR department, this is just the facts. For some reason you are still not hearing what you want to hear.
One last time: There is a very high chance that in today’s hiring environment you could make it to a regional in about two years, assuming that you keep your record clean.
Once you get to the regionals, there is a wide range of possibilities. You might position yourself well and get to a major quickly, or you might not ever get to a major. It might be your fault that you don’t get to a major, it might not be your fault at all. There are zero guarantees in aviation or life.
You’re right, that’s not what I want to hear. I thank you sincerely for answering me as fully as you can. I understand you are giving me accurate and honest information. I don’t mean to argue, but the information I seek simply must exist as a matter of record keeping. It might not be available or shared - I don’t know how public the airlines make their HR information, or if it’s been the subject of market research and, if so, how extensive and regularly that’s been updated and correlated with economic climate. If it’s not been done properly industry wide that’d be one hell of a good niche for an enterprising researcher, in my opinion. I think we can all appreciate the value in navigational aides.
Thank you for taking the time to answer me even when you were frustrated. Hope your Columbus Day was enjoyable.
Check out this link, it is as close as you will get to the information you are looking for: http://kitdarby.com/wp/
Keep I mind that while you are looking for this information (that you will not find), other people are getting their licenses and joining the airlines.
Always happy to help answer questions.
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I am locking this thread, enough time has been spent on it.
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