Avoiding certain pilots during scheduling

Just curious, if you ever feel uncomfortable flying with another crew member, do the airlines have a mechanism where you can avoid flying with them in the future?

Not for anything safety related, but for example of the other pilot insists on talking about subjects outside of work that you do not feel comfortable participating in, such as politics or religion. And not to try to get the other person in trouble, but to avoid distractions due to being uncomfortable talking to the other person, and potentially affecting flight and or safety related communications.

Or do you just suck it up and deal with it, most airlines are pretty big and chances are you’ll never see them again anyway?

1 Like

Alex,

At my airline FOs are actually allowed to “no bid” Capts but Capts cannot do the same. The rationale is as a Capt you should have a certain level of professionalism and should be capable and comfortable flying with anyone. Personally I disagree and believe as adults and professionals all pilots should. If someone should ever say something inappropriate or broach a subject you’re not comfortable with you should be able to simply say so to that person. There’s also a union committee called Professional Standards to aid pilots work out issues who’ve had personal disagreements with other pilots but keep it away from management.

While there’s obviously some people I prefer to fly with there’s no one I’ve ever bid away from.

Adam

3 Likes

Alex,

Good question. This subject is actually something that I am very passionate about.

Short answer, yes. If the airline uses a preferential bidding system, the FOs have the ability to bid avoid specific captains. It doesn’t work the other way. Adam says it’s because Captains should be able to fly with anyone. That may be how it works at his airline, but at our airline it’s simply designed that way for programming reasons. The Captain’s bids are run first so there’s no FOs for the Captains to avoid yet. Once the Captain’s bids are processed, the FO’s bids are run. Because the Captains are on the schedule at this point, bid avoid bids are now active for the FOs to use if they want. Also, let’s say a Captain were to bid avoid an FO but the FO has no avoid bids. That could prevent an FO from being awarded a trip even though they asked for it.

That said, it usually takes more than “uncomfortable subjects” for a Captain to make an FO’s no-fly list. Pilots can handle conversation. It usually comes down to “personality clashes” (for lack of a better term). Whatever the FO’s reason(s), all they need to avoid that Captain is their seniority number.

I, too, agree with Adam that as adults and professionals that all pilots should be able to fly with anyone, but that assumes that every pilot acts like an adult and a professional. I beg to differ!

But let’s get back to my point. The FAA acknowledges that the pilots don’t necessarily need to like each other, but they need to be able to work together in a professional and respectable manner. In other words, the FAA wants pilots to focus on what’s right, now who’s right.

For the most part, I’d say that most pilots get along, or at least enough to get the job done safely. HOWEVER, when issues do arise, based on my experience, Captains are usually the abrasive ones. Why? Well, that’s not an easy question to answer. There could be a lot of reasons. But, I do think I know where we need to start.

There needs to be accountability for both pilots. There are two pilots in the flight deck for a reason. Two pilots are required to be up there, in fact. As it stands, the FOs are the ones that are tasked by being the “chameleon” in the flight deck. I do not agree with this concept. Yes, the Captain is the PIC and the final authority, but I think the chameleon concept is being misused by the Captains that, quite frankly, just don’t know how to treat other people, or don’t care, or both. Sometimes, a Captain’s behavior gets to the point where the FO shuts down or starts developing apathy for the Captain. The FO isn’t off the hook in this scenario either, btw.

So, I have been proposing to my airline that we develop an accountability system. We’re not exactly sure what that will look like yet, but the idea has caught the interest of our training department who will then present it to our new Chief Pilot soon. Our training department also thinks that CRM needs to be a gradable task, just like flying the plane is gradable. Because CRM is currently not gradable, it’s more or less a discussion, or a warm and fuzzy conversation as I like to call it. I argue that that is not good enough. CRM needs to have more teeth, which is why it should be a gradable task. Only then do we think we will actually move the needle on this. So, we’re currently trying to define what CRM looks like and what it doesn’t so we can teach our pilots and that they understand what the expectation is before their next checkride.

Tory

3 Likes

Alex,

At my airline First Officers can avoid to fly with certain Captains. Even though I had some Captains that I did not care to fly with, I never felt the need to specifically avoid flying with anybody. Most people stay away form politics or religion in the cockpit, unless they are on the same page.

Chris

1 Like

Thanks for the responses guys.

Its interesting to learn how the system works, makes sense with how bidding works that Captains would not be able to select the FO since they bid first. Do you see which captains are flying which lines when you bid?

Adam, is there a Professional Standards committee at all airlines? Or is it something only at the majors?

Tory, I appreciate your insights on CRM being gradable and accountable. It’s a very interesting concept and I think it makes a lot of sense. Kind of like a “360 review” in the corporate world, for companies that still do that kind of stuff.

Since you guys are captains, do you feel that FO’s are more likely to be “on their best behavior” than Captains due to the command structure?

Alex,

Pro Standards is a union committee and I believe most airlines have it in some form.

I also want to touch on what Tory said regarding CRM. There are actually “gradable” behaviors and there are airlines with training systems that utilize them. That’s actually the foundation of AQP (Advanced Qualification Program) and CRM. It recognized that human factor skills are as important as stick and rudder skills and you pass or fail as a crew.

As far as “best behavior” Alex I’ve seen it all! For me it really comes down to respect, attitude and professionalism. My biggest peeve is the FO who shows up late and unprepared. We both have a job to do and passengers who rely on us doing it well. Do your job, don’t cut corners, and be somewhat pleasant and we’ll get along fine. Don’t and we won’t.

Adam

1 Like

Alex,

We bid by preference, so FOs will not see what the captain is flying, but they can put to avoid them.

I believe most airlines have some form of a professional standards committee.

I think most pilots are on their best behavior, regardless of seat positions. The vast majority of us are professionals that strive to do the best job possible. I have had very little difficulty with Captains or FOs acting lazy or foolish, it just isn’t the type of job that lends itself to that.

Chris

Adam,

Which airlines are you referring to? It may be helpful for us if we learn about what other airlines are doing. No sense in trying to reinvent the wheel.

Tory

Alex,

My experience has been similar to Chris and Adam’s. We see a little bit of everything and “behavior” is on both sides. Adam said it best. It really does come down to respect, attitude and professionalism. It doesn’t matter what seat you are in.

Tory

Tory,

There are many. I’m surprised Horizon is not as I believe Alaska is? Xjt was doing it years ago and we are at Hawaiian. I’ll send you some material from our training you can peruse.

Adam

1 Like

We do train under an AQP program if that’s what you’re asking. What I’m curious about is how other airlines grade CRM and then what the procedure is if CRM was unsat.

Same - Every airline I’ve worked at has had a Professional Standards committee (even my non-union one)