Really? Tell me where anyone hasn’t been straightforward? We all said while it may be possible, it will be difficult at best. Further nowhere does ATP (or anyone on this forum) guarantee anyone anything. Personally the last thing Id want is to be instructed by someone who is only there because they were guaranteed a job (regardless of their abilities, temperament, performance, etc etc).
The one thing I will agree with you on is there are most definitely other flight schools but NONE who can boast ATPs claims. That all said it’s always easier to blame ATP than to accept responsibility.
A lot of bold statements here. Firstly, I don’t think it is a secret that you can get higher pay as a CFI at other flights schools. I don’t think ATP will deny that. I had former students go instruct elsewhere and I have kept in contact with them and it sounds like they are doing well. Instructing with ATP is not your only option after completion of the program. You mention several times that they aren’t “straightforward with you” and that several things are “not guaranteed”. I’m not sure what you are looking for here? If you are looking for guarantees, there are none in aviation. If you are looking for a yes/no plain black and white answers for a lot of these questions, you won’t get them. And that is not just from ATP, that is for any flight school. There are just so many factors and the company are protecting themselves by not placing any guarantees. You work as an independent contractor, so the amount you earn is directly correlated to how much you work. Enrollment, weather, instructor/student load, plane availability; all of these are constantly changing and the flight school has no control over it.
Lets say the ATP representative does guarantee that you can make your payment on the CFI pay, like you’d like them to, but then you go and instruct at the Detroit location in the winter. Due to harsh weather, you only fly 30 hours in December. You might not be able to make that monthly payment on their CFI pay. Or you could also instruct at the Jacksonville FL location in the summer, and fly 100 hours. Then yes you could make that payment easily. Notice how there could be a wide range there? They are not going to provide any guarantees because they can’t guarantee it. No flight school can. If you are looking for a flight school that is going to write and sign a guarantee of flight hours/pay, you will find none. They would be silly to, there is just too much they can’t control.
In addition, no flight school is going to guarantee a CFI position either. Why would they? If you were a prospective student about to enroll, would you want a CFI that got their position because they were guaranteed it, or would you want the CFI who did well as a student and earned that position?
You also mention refunds. Why would expect a refund when you flew the hours and have them in your logbook? They are still good for you and count towards the 1500 whether you continue in the program or not. The total program cost is broken down directly into flight hours and sim time. They can refund what you haven’t used yet, but expecting a refund on what you have flown is unrealistic.
Yes there are plenty of other flight schools, and ATP isn’t for everyone. But they do offer a complete program, with hundreds of aircraft, plenty of resources, and proven airline placements. You can’t deny that.
Yeah true they are not straight forward at all even when I call them they wont answer all my questiosn they just want to brag tok much about ATP being best school on the planet and just make students get enrolled with them. Ive heard really bad things about ATP my only reason to attend ATP was they had 3 different lenders to get loans from so I planned to attend ATP.
What questions have you not been given an answer to yet? If you have this attitude before you even start, things won’t end well. You’re in a partnership with ATP. They provide the framework and you put in the work but to be successful you need to trust the process. You won’t ever be given a guarantee but you will be given an opportunity to succeed and all the resources to do so.
Yes you are absolutely right about my attitude towards ATP now its not lile Im hating towardsATP its just things Ive heard makes me want to really think before joining. Ive talked to students who graduated from ATP and students who are attending ATP and everyone says terrible things about ATP and their experience there, literally instructors say “Hey man look Im just here instructiong at ATP only cause they are partnered with many differnt airlines and those airlines gives us bonus for instructing at ATP other then that there is no reaosn why some peope end up instructing here at ATP.” So hearing too much bad things then good things, you know now I have this feeling like do I want to go to ATP or not.
That is odd, as the director of the ATP Alumni Association I speak with countless students and former students, almost all of them are very happy with their choice and the vast majority are successful airline pilots. If ATP did not continuously produce successful pilots, they would not be where they are today, which is the largest flight school in the world.
Interesting… here’s a problem I see with this statement:
You have not spent a day as a student, you’re not an instructor, so…to say this is really making you think about joining, maybe ATP is not for you. It’s easy for people to bash something that they can’t give 100% into. I’m sorry you feel that ATP may not be for you because of what someone else had to say, I loved ATP, I looked at all the pros and cons, but it seems like all the pros I could imagine outweigh the cons by a large sum. Another thing I’m noticing is a trend of poor writing skills, that is something that will need to be improved, especially later in your career.
I recommend taking a reality check to see if this is a career you could see yourself doing. I think a little maturity needs to happen, but that’s just my opinion based on what you’re showing on a public forum.
Not that long ago I flew with an ATP grad and he was also complaining about ATP. As a mentor here obviously I was curious (particularly since he said he had just started flying 4.5yrs prior with ATP and was now at a Major). He said “ATP had screwed him!”. I asked how and he explained that he had a conditional offer from SkyWest but he found an instructors job elsewhere that paid more. When SkyWest heard he was no longer at ATP they rescinded their offer as one of the conditions was he instruct for ATP. He therefore had to reapply and it took him longer to get there and he lost his class seniority number. I asked well how did ATP screw you? He said because they told SkyWest he had left and they didn’t have to. I then asked sooooo you wanted ATP to lie to their partner (and possibly jeopardize the relationship) just to cover you? He said resoundingly “YES!”.
While I don’t like to make sweeping indictments of any group, it does seem these days many young people feel they’re entitled to things they’re simply not and when things don’t go EXACTLY their way it’s never their fault.
With all that said listen, the decision is yours. If you think there’s a better school out there then by all means go there. Just keep in mind there are literally thousands of successful airline pilots who chose ATP and are happy they did.
I get it not everyone will have good experience in ATP and some will end up saying bad things because they didn’t want to try hard enough. I really want to take my time before going to ATP and wasting money and time.
Yes my writing skills are bad and Im planning to improve it in the future.
Thanks for your help.
I totally agree with you regarding people will start blaming others if things dont go as planned.
I am totally ready to go to ATP and get my ratings ASAP but Im still worried about paying off loan due to very high intrest rate, I have applied to couple different places to get lower intrest rates once I figure out my loan situation I will be starting my training at ATP and I recently just made my tuition deposit and I received all the books and things by ATP.
Thank you very much for all your help and support
You are contradicting yourself in a reply to both Adam and I. I really think you need to take some time and really consider, mature and evaluate your options…
The thing is Im totally ready to start my trainig at ATP in fact Ive already made my tuition deposit and secured class starting on May 20 2024 but very high intrest rate in student loan and some people saying that they had bad experience at ATP is just holding me back.
Honestly you need to decide for yourself if ATP is something you want and will commit to fully. There are less than favorable reviews out there, its the internet and people LOVE to complain. But keep in perspective that the vast majority of students that make it though the program successfully aren’t trolling the blogs writing positive reviews, they are out flying making money as airline pilots!
A great lesson not only for now but life too, are you going to make an educated decision with the information you have on what is best for your life? Or are you going to believe the minority online that choose to spend their time in a negative, and unproductive way? Make your choice and stick with it. If you choose ATP is not for you, notify the admission department immediately because class dates are competitive and should be available for those that are fully committed.
I agree with you there is lot of negativity flying around and I need to decide quickly. After talking to other people and getting all the information from all of you I have decided to not to become Pilot, I called ATP admissions this morning and I canceled my enrollment.
Thank you all very much for your information and help but unfortunately due to loan being too high and me coming from broke family I had to make my call and not move forward.
Hopefully in the future I get a chance to become Pilot.
