Hi everyone recently I did admission flight with ATP and it went good instructor was very nice and he was very real about all the answers he gave me so I went a ahead and applied to Sallie Mae and they approved me but with montly payment of $2300 for 15 years. I have done lots and lots of research if instructing at ATP or any other flight school will it pay me enough to pay off my $2300 debt and have some money left over, now I know I wont have too much left over but if I can have $200-400 leftover thats more then enough while instructing, Im keeping my spending as low as possible. I have called and spoke to ATP but they wont give me an estimate on how much I can even expect to make or will I make enough just to pay off my student debt, everytime I call its almost like they dont want to tell how much is possible to make, so its very hard for me to take out this loan now and finishing my training but not making enough to pay it off.
When I went for my admission flight I did talk with some instructors everyone said compare to other schools around ATP pays little less but I did hear from 1 instructor he said paying off $2300 a month is really hard while instructing at ATP.
So my question is can anyone who instructed at ATP please give me an idea of how much can I even expect to make as CFI at ATP and will I make enough to make my monthly payments?
Thank you very much to everyone here, I get more information about ATP then calling to ATP and speaking to them, its almost like they dont wanna answer all questions they just want to end the call, so thank you every here for all your great information: if this foarm did not exist i will be honest I would not have plan to attend ATP I wouldve dropped out of flight training around 4 montha ago, so thank you very much everyone for your great explanation.
Supreeth,
While I’m not a CFI and haven’t even started with ATP yet, ATP’s website has their CFI pay-rates listed there. It is $20.70 per flight hour, $17.25 for simulator instruction, and $17.25 per hour of ground. My understanding is that for every flight hour, you are credited half an hour of ground, which brings the pay to $29.32 per flight hour. I do know some locations also pay a minimum base pay, or at least that is what I was told by the instructors at my location. There are also bonuses if your student passes a checkride on their first attempt. Additionally, there are several cadet programs that pay tuition reimbursement or a monthly stipend that you could look into. SkyWest pays $17.50 per flight hour up to a total of $17,500, Frontier’s cadet program gives you a $500 stipend each month until you reach 750 hours and then it goes up to $1000 per month. I’d definitely look into those!
Also, I would check with Sallie Mae and see what options for repayment are as I don’t have them memorized. I am paying $25 per month for 12 months after the first disbursement. That should provide enough time for me to start instructing before I have to start paying principle and interest payments. I believe Sallie Mae has an interest only option as well as forbearance where you stop paying your loan but interest continues to accrue if you have a financial hardship. At $29.32 per hour, you’d need to instruct at least 78 hours a month just to make your $2300 minimum payment, and don’t forget, you’ll have to set money aside for income taxes too. You either need to start saving or figure out what loan options you have. Based off your $2300 a month payment, I’m going to assume they didn’t give you a very low interest rate so it could also be in your interest to re-apply with a co-signer (if you didn’t with your initial application) who has good credit (if you can) so your monthly payments could be lower.
Also, use this forum to find answers, the search function is super useful! There is a ton of info on here from previous students and instructors talking about refinancing their loans after finishing the program as well as info on pay and average hours. From my research, I’ve found that most instructors average about 70 hours per month, some months less (usually winter when weather is not as good) and some months more (when weather is usually steady and a lot of flying can be done). Roscoe has a great write-up here: https://airlinepilot.life/t/zero-to-1500-with-atp-my-experience/37937
Best of luck!
-Steve
Supreeth,
There are many variables that will determine how much you’ll make as a CFI. Some locations are busier than others as are certain times of year, etc. The average ATP instructor earns in the mid to upper $20k so that would put you in the range to pay the $2300. Thing is there are no guarantees which is why the lender has other options (like the $25 payment and other deferments). Do well and Tuition Reimbursement can help considerably. Regardless there’s no question it’s going to be challenging and sacrifices will have to be made for the first couple of years but it’s doable.
Adam
I’m sure the mentors are more capable of answering these questions but what I can do is give you my personal experience. I went through ATP and got a 7.5% interest rate with sallie Mae in 2020. I did the $25/month payment while in training and living with my folks. I did survey work in Cessna 310s and made anywhere from 45-55k annually for 2 years while time building. My minimum payment was $900/month but I elected to do auto payments of $1500/month. A few months into my survey gig, I refinanced my loan for a 2.9% interest rate. I was also gone over 300 days out of the year so I chose to stay living at home and focus on paying my loan. My loan started off at 103k after accrued interest by the time I graduated from ATP and is now down to 60k only 2 years after starting to pay it off. I fly for Spirit now and probably make low six figures and still pay the $1500/month on top of rent. I don’t have a ton of free spending money but I’m definitely not struggling. I’ve talked to many different FOs at my airline on year-two pay and they seem to consistently make in the 150-170k bracket, and it only goes up from there. Things will get easier as time and seniority progresses.
2300/month is a lot of money but it really depends on your situation and what other expenses you have. If you are living at home or can stay with someone rent free until an airline picks you up, I’d say it’s possible. It will definitely be tight though. I would absolutely have some money saved up for emergency purposes because you’ll certainly be living paycheck to paycheck while building your time.
Supreeth,
To say you’ll make $1 versus $3,000 as an instructor, depends on a lot of factors, that are and aren’t in your control. A loan payment of $2,300 for 15 years is a bit high, but when we’re in the market that we are, can be tough to find cheaper interest rates. The one suggestion if that price tag scares you is delaying a start (which obviously no one wants to do), save money and start to invest for later in life. These are discussions I recommend having with a financial advisor or professional in the field that knows the market, budgeting and financing.
I was just having a conservation the other day with a colleague about how low-spending I lived when I was instructing. I wasn’t buying clothes (maybe a pair of shoes), video games, etc., I lived on a budget and forecasted it for about a year. I set aside a ton of money that I wasn’t using while making the $25/month payments with Sallie Mae, that way when my actual payments started, I could afford them. I utilized ATP’s living expense money as softly as I could, putting a lot of it aside monthly for payments.
There are tons of tuition reimbursements, cadet programs at an all-time high, that offer some sign-on bonuses and incentives to earn a boost of cash flow as you build time. Steven posted the link I always reference when discussing finances, but things change and so do incentives. ATP offers a few bonuses for good rewards like: checkride sign off passes, training center standards positions, and some other positions. Again, I believe $2,300 is a steep price, but when we look at the market, inflation and other factors, there isn’t much we can do at this time other than sacrifice things.
Have a discussion with a financial advisor, see what they recommend based on a budget that you could predict. You can have a prediction/assumption and an actual.
Brady
Arman,
While your imput is greatly appreciated and actual experience is far better than estimates, keep in mind the current interest rates are more than double what they were in 2020.
Adam
You’re absolutely right. Completely different times now.
Supreeth,
I’ll be honest, a $2300 monthly payment wouldn’t have been possible for ME when I was a flight instructor with ATP. It might be doable for you, but you would need to have some significant savings to make it to your first professional job as a pilot (after being a CFI) whilst making those payments. Or find a much higher paying CFI job. I worked for about 16 months as a flight instructor with ATP and I worked sunrise/sunset almost every day. I probably maxed out the flight hours I could have done in my situation. My loan interest percentage was really low when I started, and it has risen a little, since I elected for a variable interest rate. Still it is really low compared to most. I am still under 5% without refinancing. Interest rates have risen A LOT since then, so I might be a bad example. Initially it was $25 a month whilst I was training, but I went ahead and started making higher payments anyway from my savings. Once the normal rate kicked in, my payments were around $600/month. But, pretty much exactly as Arman did, I paid $1500/month once I started instructing and continue to do so now. That loan payment was probably 60% of my post-tax income as a flight instructor. If I wasn’t as cheap as I am, I probably would have struggled to make a payment that high each month. Add rent in there, since I had to move for my instructor job, and I probably had about 10-15% of my income to spend each month on everything else. So I pretty much went the whole time only buying food and minor household items. I will add that I am extremely lucky that I have my parents to back me up if anything went wrong, but luckily I haven’t needed them so far.
I really emphasize taking a real hard look at whether this is actually feasible for you. It all depends on how much you have saved, if you are backed by anyone, and if you have a fall back job/career to make payments, if flying isn’t for you. I’ll throw an example out there. Let’s say you successfully make it all the way up to your commercial certificate, but CFI school or being a CFI isn’t for you. You’ve probably already spent 80% of your loan on that training. With a commercial and even a commercial multi, you’d hardly be hire-able with those hours. You’d now owe that $2300/month payment, without a job, and now having to find a way to build hours. It’s really something to consider. I went 5 months after finishing training before I got my instructor job because of COVID. Could you make those payments for several months without a stable flying income? I used it as motivation for me to make it through as a student and instructor. I can tell you that when I was an instructor, there were a lot of students who might have thought they had this mindset, but they didn’t, and it backfired on them. So make sure you work hard, but still have a backup plan!
Sorry for the small rant. I’m not trying to be too much of a pessimist, but rather overly cautious. The punchline is that aviation is a volatile industry. Things can be great and you make plenty of money, or things can be tough with no hiring. Financially you have to plan for the worst, and hope to be lucky. If you think you can make the payments, do the math and be sure, then go for it. If you have no rent, it might be doable. I understand we are in a different economy compared to when I started, so this might be feasible.
Roscoe
Supreeth,
As the other have said, how much you make as a CFI will vary by time of year, number of students you have and how much flying you’ve been doing. With that being said, there are flexible repayment options as CFI’s at ATP. This will allow you to make minimal payments until you’re at a regional airline and can afford to make bigger payments. At that point, you can also try to refinance your loan for a lower interest rate (if available) and smaller monthly payments.
Hannah
Thank you for your information it made little more sense on CFI pay and hours, I will take a look at the link you sent thanks
True i have to sacrifice some thing and I am willing to because I know future will make it up thanks
Thanks for your explanation and I wish my intrest was in low 5% then I would not be worring much i would be sure to make 2 payments each month(if possible). My plan is to stay my parents so no rent and no spending on food and ATP near me is little busy location but Ive heard that its not busy as it used to be till last year throughtout my whole CFI and maybe even when I get my first pilot job lests see only time will tell. Also you were very true about being lucky in Aviation because it be really good and change to very bad really fast, one of my family member knows a friend he did whole training and became CFI but the CFI pay was too low and he was not able to pay off his monthly debt. I will do little more thinking and research and see where life takes me thanks
Im planning to refinance my existing loan hopefully i get accepted for below 10% intrest rate lets see guess time will tell
I wish my intrest rate was that low i dont know if I can even get close to your intrest even after I refinance my loan covid killed everything. I choose fixed option with $25 monthly payments while in school, I choose fixed option only because I will know exactly how much I should pay every month I was just not sure on the variable rate because what if next year something happens and now my intrest goes up to 20% so I choose fixed option.
Guess I just have to try my luck and see what life has for me thanks for your help
How does survey work work, do you do land mapping for engineers? And how did you get that job? Did ATP help you connect with them. Also, how many hours did you need to get that job? Congratulations on your career. You are an inspiration
Thanks I appreciate it!
I got really lucky with the job. I sought out the job on my own. The company I worked for had a hangar literally right next to the ATP location I did all my training at. I just walked up and handed them my resume. I was hired within a week and built all my time with them. I started at 250 hours and flew the 310 mainly, but on occasion flew the 206. At the time, ATP had an 8 month wait period of CFIs, so I looked for options that would get me in the air quicker.
Unfortunately the company I worked for does a lot of “dual piloting” now, meaning there are two pilots in the cockpit instead of one, and one operates the camera while the other flies the plane, and they switch after every flight. It used to be where a person specially trained to operate the camera would do it. This new method cuts your time (flight hours) in half because it’s not a two-crew aircraft nor does our operation require two pilots, and management really doesn’t care because they get to keep the pilots longer. It’s unfortunate but that’s the way it is now. It will take you twice as long to build your time at that company now.
As far as who we mapped for, I was told we had contracts with google, apple, bing, and insurance companies.
I’ve spoken to people who completed CFI through ATP but were never offered a job, despite successful completion. It seems no job is guaranteed, but I’m unsure why that was the case. It could have been the person or something else.
Chris,
Is anything guaranteed in life? That is why we ALWAYS recommend Day 1 at ATP, treat it as if it’s your job interview… because it kind of is. Just because they were successful doesn’t mean there weren’t other factors in why they were not offered a position.
Brady
Chris,
There are many reasons someone might not be offered a position, but as with most things, it’s much easier to blame others than to accept responsibility ourselves. Could be checkride busts, could be tardiness and absenteeism, could just be a bad attitude.
With that all in mind I offer that a) ATP is always looking for good instructors so if someone wasn’t there’s a reason, b) would you really want an instructor who was just guaranteed a position vs one who earned it?
Adam
Adam,
You’re absolutely correct. I do not know the person well enough to ask for more details (and it’s not really my place to do so, anyway). I’m sure there are numerous factors involved.
Chris