Flight academy vs mom and pop shop

Airline Pilot Questions & Answers
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I am looking into where to get my training at. I am intrigued by LIFT Academy and ATP because they are closer to home but primarily because of the partnerships they have with airlines with getting a guaranteed interview, tuition assistance etc.

Because these academy have partnerships with the airlines, do the airlines respect the small mom and pop shops? Is it still possible to get hired if I go through a local shop? Or, will the airlines not respect that training as much as an ATP or LIFT?

I have seen some videos of people going through it right now saying that its stupid to spend $100k to go through the academy’s and that you can go through a local shop for way cheaper than that and still get everything you need to flight at the airlines.

Any help with these questions would be awesome!

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Quentin,

Great question so let’s take a look.

First off regardless of what school you go to, large or small, ALL licenses are granted by the FAA. You either have an FAA license or you don’t. So yes, the airlines will “respect” your licenses regardless of where you train, but, that’s only part of the story.

As you point out ATP has airline partnerships with virtually every airline in the country. This includes their Direct Entry program with Frontier, Avelo and Sun Country which would put you directly into the right seat of a Boeing or Airbus, allowing you to bypass the Regionals. This is unprecedented in the industry. So if an FAA license is an FAA license, and regardless of where you train, will be recognized and respected, why don’t all flight schools have partnerships with the airlines? For that answer here’s a little history.

40yrs ago ATP created the Airline Career Pilot Program. The program was created by airline pilots for the specific purpose of training pilots for the airlines. You see while for many years most airline pilots came from the military, the military was created fewer and fewer pilots and the airlines needed to start tapping civilian pilots. While there were plenty of flight schools, most were setup for the recreational pilot. You could go there to get your Private license. Wanted to learn more? Maybe get your Instrument, etc etc etc. How long it took was really up to you. Most people took lessons when they could, here and there and eventually they’d take their checkrides and get there licenses. Here lied the problem. The airline trains there pilots like the military does at an accelerated pace. You don’t take your checkride when you’re ready, you take it when the airline wants you to and you’ll either be ready or you’re out. The founders of ATP recognized the disparity and created an accelerated program similar to the airlines specifically to prepare their students for the airlines. You see airline pilot training is expensive for the airlines (in fact years ago pilots had to cover the cost of their own training) and hiring pilots that can’t make it through training is a huge and undesirable expense. Somewhere along the way the airlines started to see that these ATP guys were doing better in training while others were not. They started giving preferential interviews to ATP grads and even offered hiring at reduced hours (when this was possible) because the ATP grads demonstrated their ability to be successful. This led to the partnerships we see today.

Now is it possible to train at a mom and pop and be successful? Sure. But the fact is ATP has had more pilots hired in a month than most flight schools have had EVER. Further, while it may be possible(?) to earn your ratings for less money, the fact is many students end to paying more due to the lack of efficiency and resources at most local flight schools.

Ok but let’s say you do AND you’re successful in your training, then what? To get hired by an airline you need to build the required 1500hr min. How are you going to build that time? Most people flight instruct. Will your local school need instructors when you’re ready? Maybe, but ATP has 78 locations with hundreds of instructors and they ALWAYS need more.

The bottomline is this. Flight training is never going to be cheap. Personally Id rather spend more to give myself the best chance of success vs saving a few dollars and hoping for the best. That’s why I chose ATP many years ago and it was the right one for me. Do you’re own research but I think when you’re done you’ll agree.

Btw, I don’t know how old you are but if you would’ve started your training over 2yrs ago when you first posted on this forum you’d be at (or close to it) an airline already! Just saying…

Adam

3 Likes
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Thank you, this was super helpful! It is crazy to think about the fact of if I would have started when I first started posting on this site that I would be about done by now. Very good prospective!

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Also, I am 25.

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Ah, a question I can answer with some authority, having researched flight training and schools for a year and visiting schools for the last month

Besides an “academy” and a mom n pop, you’re missing a large segment of flight schools. Lets call them professional flight schools that dont fall under the 141/wannabe 141 umbrella of college programs and “academies”, but are also way bigger than a typical mom n pop with 1 skyhawk and 1 CFI. I visited 3 of them in addition to a local ATP and tried to visit Lift but thats a different story. Now since this is ATPs forum, advertising their competitors obviously isnt welcome here so I won’t say names. All 3 had the same basic characteristics: part 61, train all the ratings private thru MEI, lots of planes, single and multi, lots of fulltime instructors, on site Mx, their own DPEs , simulators, and in general, facilities and resources that enable a large volume of flight training to happen at a time at an accelerated pace if. Pretty much the same thing as “academy”, but without the strict 141 timeline, and also without the pricetag.

Downsides seem to be related to financing the training. They may not have financing partners like a big “academy” or will have different deferment and repayment terms, or you may have to come up with the money all on your own. But on the flipside, total cost is drastically cheaper than an “academy”. Like 30-40k cheaper when you recalculate their minimum hour quotes to average hours.

There are tons of threads on APC forums in the training section about this subject. Just gotta read up.

Also, with Lift being owned by Republic, you sign a contract to fly for RPA for 5 years after finally making it to an FO class. There are mixed opinions out there about locking yourself into 1 airline before even starting training, so feel free to make your own.

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Quentin,

I would like to immediately point out the difference between LIFT and ATP because you combined them into a group statement, “I am intrigued by…” While the company that put together the academy has been around for some time, have they always trained the future pilots who aviate the aircraft that soar the sky today? ATP has been in business for 40 years; this year is 40! ATP has produced more than 1,000 graduates on a yearly basis, since I’ve been an active on this forum, that’s 5,000+ pilots since I’ve been a member (and who knows how many of ATP’s graduates went on and instructed elsewhere, producing more quality pilots). I started out at a mom-and-pop flight school, after obtaining my PPL, I realized I needed an accelerated path and this was something I wanted to do in my life, life’s short…

The people that say spending $100,000 is stupid are the same ones that did it themselves to get to where they are… realize that. The negativity on social media is the evil to all, and truthfully, your eyes and mind will automatically believe it… well, because today that’s where our mind goes immediately. Also, yes, these comments grind my gears because it’s all for ad revenue, your attention, and algorithms they say these things. They’re social media influencers, they’re making money every time that you interact with their stuff. Kudos to them, they figured out how to play the system and the public is letting them win, truly.

The LIFT Academy is fairly new, I cannot back the statistics within them. The other thing, what partnerships do LIFT have that ATP does NOT? ATP has over 30+ partnerships ranging from P135 to P121 operations. Not interested in CFI’ing, cool, there’s P135 gigs, but you’ll need to build time to get there. Need a cadet program for your desired airline, ATP probably has you covered and instructing gives you that advantage over someone else.

I started out at a mom-and-pop school as I mentioned above. I determine I needed a fast-track program to get me to my goals and ATP was it. I had nearly $30,000 in college debt still and working full-time, I took the bear of the loan at a pretty high interest rate. Fast forward a few months, I completed the program, started instructing and within a few months thereafter, started interviewing for cadet programs. I had a few offers, I had tuition reimbursement at my disposal if I wanted to accept the monetary value. I found that ATP delivered everything that was promised. I truly don’t think I would be where I am today if it wasn’t for taking the risk of tackling on more debt, and setting my mind forward to completing the dream. Don’t set yourself short of your aiming point and you won’t land before the touchdown point.

The only one that will be able to tell you whether you should go to A, B, or C, is YOU. I recommend if you don’t have any flight experience to get to your local airport, take a few introductory flights, and continue doing your research. Sometimes we have individuals coming here saying “I have my instrument, but my school isn’t great, is ATP for me,” and unfortunately, it’s too late unless you want to redo the instrument phase, and beyond.

Brady