Will posted 5yrs ago and I’m not sure he’s still active on the forum, so he may or may not chime in but hopefully some Flex-Track students will.
I’m not really sure what you mean by “But how has people’s work-life balance been in getting started if you’re already a full-time professional before changing careers after building your minimums?”. After you build your minimums ideally you’ll be getting hired at a Regional and starting your career. In the beginning you’ll be crazy busy with training and until you gain some seniority your schedule won’t really be your own. Not sure if that’s what you’re referring to, perhaps you can explain?
Finally while I appreciate your desire, a 3-4hr drive to training is not going to work. You want to arrive at training well rested and ready to learn. If you’re looking at the Flex-Track, maybe you could locate a room to rent for your training days?
Lucas,
Welcome to the forum. Your story isn’t all that unique if you browse through this forum. You’re actually quite the average age to start in this career. If you have to continue to work while doing your flight training, the Flex track program seems to be the best fit. It is more expensive and longer due to the increased flexibility. No matter which program you choose, the 3-4 hours is too long to stay living where you are. With flex track you may be able to arrange a “crash pad” situation and block your training days together but it would be best to temporarily move to the closest location and use student housing. With that being said, is quitting your job and taking out a loan for the fast track program plus housing out of the question? That would get you catapulted in this career much quicker and probably cheaper than flex track plus a crash pad.
You can anticipate not much of a quality of life for the first three years… getting your ratings is a full time commitment. Then building time as a CFI, you’ll be flying more than ever and spending the rest with your students at the airport. Once you make it to a regional, the initial training is very intense as well as little schedule control on reserve and your very junior months. But it does get better… just want you to have realistic expectations.
-Hannah
I am in a similar position as you. I am 29 and will be 30 by the time I finish the program. I start the fast track program next month. I sold my house and quit a very lucrative career to pursue this childhood dream of mine. There isn’t an ATP location in my state so I am moving 6 hours south to attend the Ogden location and am using the money I made from selling my house to pay for housing and examiner fees. This will either be the biggest mistake of my life or the best decision I have ever made. I understand the first few years will be difficult, but I think it will be worth it in the end.
Adam, yes, that is mostly what I mean about balance and expectations, and some good perspective. I’ve seen some other responses now in other threads as I’ve explored from current working professionals also pursuing this path. Mostly, I’m nervous on the ability to balance the time in a part-time basis and remain committed for the next couple, or few, years coming from zero experience. But I won’t know until I begin and get some experience with it. I am ok with the prospect of not doing a fast track and staying at my current job to pursue this until I am ready to apply for regionals. But other people’s experiences staying committed to the training and what helped them through it if in a similar situation would be helpful to know.
Leaving my job right now is probably not realistic, unfortunately. Especially if I begin getting experience and find out that it truly isn’t for me after starting out. But if I do love it, I see that ATP offers a switch from flex to fast track. And that might be what’s best if this is what I want to be dedicated to. I’m lucky that I’ve progressed to having a steady set schedule of typical 40-hour weeks to start exploring and dipping my feet in the water as it were, as I wouldn’t have been able to balance something like this at my last position working 17 hour days.
I’m not up to date on ATP programs, I don’t think the flex was an option when I went, but to answer your question I’m doing pretty well, just started at a regional. ATP will get you there. I’d have to second everyone saying 3-4 hours commute will not work.
I would strongly recommend against a 3-4 hour commute to training. You need to arrive well rested and ready to fly, not to mention you need that time for studying. Now if you can find a way to stay down in Milwaukee, that would help, but there will still be unpredictability due to weather.
Will,
I am glad to hear that you are at a regional and doing well. Thank you for chilling back in!
Hi,
I’ve been doing research on ATP while building up money for examiner fees, and something I haven’t seen talked about in any forums is when we are taught how to communicate with ATC. Could anyone give me some insight as to when we are taught.
Also, I’ve noticed that the regional I want to go for requires a FCC license but that isn’t in any of the lesson plans for the airline cadet program; is that something I will have to acquire outside of the flight school?
Thanks, Austin.
Keep in mind that you can take out extra money on your loan to cover examiner fees, many people do this.
You will learn how to talk to ATC through your simulator work and flying the actual airplane. There is no class per se on ATC communications, it is more something that is taught along the way.
The FCC radio operator permit consists solely of filling out an application on the internet and paying a small fee, then they mail it to you. It is really just a formality, but a necessary one.
Thank you, I had no idea I could do that. I was just going to go with the loan offered by ATP and just save for a while but if I could start immediately, I’d be overjoyed. Do you have any recommendations on where to look for loans? I’m afraid I was a sheltered kid and still don’t know everything I wish I did haha.
I also very much appreciate the advice on communications, it eases my mind quite a bit.
Learning about how to communicate on the radio is definitely taught in ATP’s curriculum. When exactly? I can’t say for sure, but I do know that it’s taught during the Private phase. Instructors also model and teach radio communications during every flight. Each student learns how to communicate on the radio at their own pace, but all have it down before their solo eval.
As for the FCC license, it’s literally a piece of paper you print out yourself after paying a small fee for the license. There’s no training, no test, nothing. I believe that the license is required because only licensed individuals are permitted to use the radio “to perform specified transmitter operations.” -Google
Loans for the program are provided by Sallie Mae. ATP’s website has more information. You can also speak with Admin directly during normal business hours.
Your best bet is to read through all of the pages on financing, then call into the admissions department and ask to speak to Kirk. Kirk is a great guy and is the expert on all such things.
Thank you both. After reading the page more closely, I realized I misunderstood a section and thought I was required to pay out of pocket for the examiner fees, thank you for giving me some unsolicited advice and saving me months of wasted time!
Hi Chris this is my first question on the page. I’m 28 with a bachelors in finance and just got my commercial license. was planning to go the CFI route but now seriously considering just building time buying/leasing or financing a plane with friend pilots potentially. our main concern is getting hired by regionals after building the 1,500 hrs. Any advice or insight is greatly appreciated. Thank you
Getting hired by a Regional once you’ve built the required 1500hrs (and all the other ATP requirements) is relatively easy. There a pilot shortage and they need bodies.
What’s not so easy is getting through newhire Regional training. While the Regionals are hiring like never before the washout rate is also the highest it’s every been. Why? Because too many pilots are focused solely on the quantity of hours and not the quality. If you and your friends spend the next year or two simply buzzing the pattern or going for $200 lunches I can assure you you’ll be part of that unfortunate group who can tell their grandchildren how the were hired by an airline but never actually made it. The reason we’re all so keen on flight instructing is because instructing forces you to remain vigilant, multitask and most important sharpen your skills and knowledge.
You can build time however you like but just know day 1 of newhire training you’re expected to be a VERY competent and knowledgeable instrument pilot. If you may have a really short career.
that’s insightful but CFI can’t be the only way. some pilots teaching is just not their cup of tea. so i find it almost unfair if you just complete CFI solely for your own good and essentially “use” potential students for hours. I believe you can discipline yourself to remain vigilant, multitask and sharpen your skills and knowledge while flying to fulfill the hours requirement. Do we know of any time building programs that let you rent the aircraft for some time or a package for 1,000 hrs ? Thanks in advance that’d be very helpful!
A couple of things. First, no one said being a CFI is the only way. Only that its the most common and very effective.
I also can’t say I agree about it being “unfair” either. I’d say it’s like many jobs in that there are benefits to both parties. If you look at the vast majority of people who are employed (from cab drivers to brain surgeons to pilots), most are there to better their lives. Whether they enjoy it or not sadly seldom enters the equation. I love my job as an airline pilot and while I’d most likely pay to fly if I wasn’t a professional, I surely would not have gotten up at 4:30 this am and be sleeping in a hotel in OGG (rather than my own bed) if I wasn’t getting paid to. Does that mean it’s all about the money and I don’t care about the airline or the passengers? Of course not. While it’s true few pilot’s instruct for the shear love of it and most are there to build time, that doesn’t preclude them from doing a good job. They get to build hours and gain experience while the student hopefully(?) gets quality instruction. That said I do agree with you that not everyone should be instructing. If you know you’re one of them, then you should most definitely seek another route.
Further while it is true that someone can be disciplined enough to improve their skills on their own, discipline is no substitute for necessity. You can try to give yourself a few activities to practice “multitasking”, but that’s just not the same as external forces coming at you randomly to the point of overload. You can simulate an emergency or malfunction but trust me it’s nowhere near the experience of a newbie sitting next to you literally doing the worse possible thing they could possibly do at the worse possible time. That’s just reality (think martial art katas or even sparring vs a street fight), there’s simply no substitute for real world.
Now back in the day, before the pilot shortage when there were few jobs, there were time building programs that would allow you to “pay for time”. Even then they were not looked upon very fondly by the airlines. I would suspect now, with so many jobs available (yes the majority of which are instructor positions), it would be seen even more unfavorably. Airlines want well trained, experienced pilots and if a pilot is unable (or unwilling) to get a job and get paid to fly vs spending their own money it begs some questions. Regardless I’m not aware of any current time building programs.