First time poster here, but have been “lurking” the last month reading the material/posts here as well as on airlinepilotforums, watching YouTube pilot videos of all sorts and even worked through the TAC IFR interactive modules on the Univ of North Dakota Aerospace website as I was trying to get a feel of what the material may be like in the ATP class.
I have no previous flying experience and am taking the introductory flight on Monday here in Chicago.
I already own a business and make very good money, but I’m admittedly burnt out. I would be able to run it while going to school as I have employees who work for me so I can focus solely on school/studying, etc.
I am curious as to the timeline with school. If I understand it correctly, the ATP training lasts 9 months at which time you graduate with roughly 300 flight hours. I also believe I would need 1500 flight hours to be able to fly per the FAA?
My questions:
when the ATP school is completed, is it normal to work as a CFI for ATP in order to help cover the 1200 deficit?
How many students are offered CFI position’s by ATP?
If you’re not offered a position, how does one go about accumulating those extra 1200 hours needed? <–this is one of my big fears, investing $90-100k and not getting the hours needed to become a pilot.
While I’ve been told on the phone with ATP, that all locations are the same, is this true? It appears some locations (FL/AZ) seem to be popular. Is there a reason for that? Is there any plus or minus to attending school in Chicago? I want to give myself the best chance to be successful.
If offered a CFI position with ATP, is one often asked to move to do so or are they mainly asked to teach where they attended school? Another important question being married with 4 kids.
Once the 1500 FAA hours are accrued, I see some graduates have attended the ATP CTP class - is this another necessary step in becoming a pilot? I saw the additional cost associated but wondering if this is another mandatory step in flying professionally?
As to job prospects; while I have read a lot of the posts similar to mine, I’ll likely be close to 50 once I have completed my 1500 hours…
I have seen posts as to COVID’s impact go both ways:
a) stay away from aviation completely - it wont come back anytime soon and there’s tons of pilots sitting at home that will get hired back first .
b) the shortage of pilots will be worse and entering school in a downturn is the BEST time to start!?
Given each of your personal experiences, what would your honest advice be to me going forward trying to become a pilot? Why or why not?
What are realistic job prospects given my older age? Will my age be looked at as a negative versus a late 20’s/mid 30’s new pilot? I understand timing is everything and while no one can say for sure where the industry may be in 2-3 years, just curious as to my ability to land an actual pilot job. What are some of the criteria it is based on? I basically have chosen ATP due to their numerous affiliations with a number of airlines & they are looked at as the BEST “zero to hero” pilot school in the country on almost every message board outside of this one that I’ve seen.
What is the realistic annual salary range of newly minted pilots that I see on ATP’s website when they are hired into their first airline job?
With that, how many hours does one fly a month? I understand starting out I’d have no seniority so I’d likely get the less desirable flights (but to me, flying as a pilot, would be a win no matter the day of the week/time because it would mean I “made it”).
I’m just curious how often you are away and how much time one is at home?
Would I likely be able to find a job here in the Chicago area? Is this a good area of the country to catch on with a regional airline like most talk about getting hired by as one’s first job?
So with 65 being the mandatory retirement age, are pilots still able to work/fly after this in some other capacity if one wanted?
I feel like I’m forgetting a bunch of things I meant to ask, but just wanted to get a bunch of things out here to hopefully get some feedback on these questions from more experienced/seasoned people that have already gone through school & are flying for a living.
Thank you for taking the time to read through this & any/all feedback is greatly appreciated!
1,2,3,5) Many ATP students do instruct for ATP and many do not. ATP will offer students positions based on availability and the student’s performance and attitude. Some decline because there isn’t a location close to their homes and some find other opportunities. If you’re offered a position that’s great but again many aren’t but successfully find positions at other flight schools or other entry level flying jobs (banner tow, traffic watch, etc). A big factor may be your flexibility. You may do well, be offered a position but it might not be in Chicago (location is based solely on availability). At that point it’s up to you to weigh your options. While there are no guarantees, there are most often hours to be found.
ATP works very hard to standardize their training throughout the network. The reason FL/AZ are so popular is simply the weather. The thought of doing a walk around when it’s 0deg outside in Chicago isn’t particularly attractive to many people. Your success will be based on your effort, not the location. Choose the location that works best for you.
ATP now includes the ATP-CTP as part of the Career Pilot Program. To fly for an airline you must have your ATP license. The ATP-CTP is required to earn you ATP license. Now if you’re hired at a Regional that airline will provide the ATP-CTP training so you wouldn’t need it. ATP provides it to give you more career options. Should you decide to fly cargo or corporate to build your time vs going to Regional and never acquire your ATP, this eliminates the need to do it in your own before you go to a Major where it’s required.
At 50 you need to be realistic about your career expectations. You will never be a Delta 787 Capt flying to Paris. There simply isn’t enough time left in your career. The Regionals will love you because there’s a chance you won’t bail asap which makes you a good investment. That doesn’t mean the Majors wouldn’t want you but there’s no guarantees. I’m of the mind while the pandemic has been devastating to the industry, the airlines never came close to addressing the pilot shortage and when things return to normal it will be worse. While the Majors will no question resume hiring this is still the pinnacle of our industry and frankly not everyone makes it.
Starting pay at the Regionals is currently $40kish. Please visit our FAQ for more details on what pilots earn when.
Most airlines have a minimum guarantee of 75hrs a month and an FAA cap of 100. The average pilot flies somewhere in the middle 80s.
No one knows who’ll be hiring where and for what bases. You may be able to start and stay in Chicago, you may need to commute. There zero way of knowing.
There are other opportunities beyond 65 but keep in mind you’ll be competing against pilots who started in their 20s and will have tens of thousands of hours and years of experience more than you will. If that’s something you’ll want to do you’ll need to be seriously networking long before you hit 65 to line something up.
Welcome to the forums and thank you for the introduction. Let’s get to your questions:
when the ATP school is completed, is it normal to work as a CFI for ATP in order to help cover the 1200 deficit?
many students chose to apply to ATP and build their flight time their as instructors.
How many students are offered CFI position’s by ATP?
I am not sure of a specific number, that would be a great question to ask the admissions department.
If you’re not offered a position, how does one go about accumulating those extra 1200 hours needed? <–this is one of my big fears, investing $90-100k and not getting the hours needed to become a pilot.
building flight time via instructing at another school, towing banners, flying jumpers, traffic watch, there are all sorts of different ways.
While I’ve been told on the phone with ATP, that all locations are the same, is this true? It appears some locations (FL/AZ) seem to be popular. Is there a reason for that? Is there any plus or minus to attending school in Chicago? I want to give myself the best chance to be successful.
some people prefer FL and AZ for the weather and both have traditionally been hotbeds of flight training, both are way too hot for me. Of course some locations are bigger than others, that is driven by student demand. Chicago will have some challenges in the winter, but this is balanced by spring, summer and fall that are generally pretty good for flying. Even the winter in Chicago has plenty of cold, clear days that are great for flying. ATP has had a location in Chicago for as long as I can remember, if there were issues there, it wouldn’t still be there. I would simply pick the location that is most convenient and not give it any thought beyond that. I trained at a location that had several snow storms, I still finished exactly on time.
If offered a CFI position with ATP, is one often asked to move to do so or are they mainly asked to teach where they attended school? Another important question being married with 4 kids.
-You will be offered a location from those that are available. You can chose amongst those that are available or pass on the offer. Of course you can always request a transfer to your desired location when/if it becomes available.
Once the 1500 FAA hours are accrued, I see some graduates have attended the ATP CTP class - is this another necessary step in becoming a pilot? I saw the additional cost associated but wondering if this is another mandatory step in flying professionally?
-The ATP CTP class is required for you to earn your ATP rating, which is required by the airlines. This program is now included in the tuition price of the ATP program.
What are realistic job prospects given my older age? Will my age be looked at as a negative versus a late 20’s/mid 30’s new pilot? I understand timing is everything and while no one can say for sure where the industry may be in 2-3 years, just curious as to my ability to land an actual pilot job. What are some of the criteria it is based on? I basically have chosen ATP due to their numerous affiliations with a number of airlines & they are looked at as the BEST “zero to hero” pilot school in the country on almost every message board outside of this one that I’ve seen.
-there is a detailed post in the FAQ section that covers age and the airlines, please check that out. Realistically, I thunk you have a shot at the regionals, but the majors are a big “maybe”. The regionals love hiring older pilots as they know there is a much better chance that the pilots will stay with them until retirement and not just ump at the first major airline that comes along. Airlines primarily look at total flight time and quality of experience when hiring pilots. Of course they also want to see that somebody is the kind of person that you would want to spend four days with and that they can trust with a $40 million dollar airplane.
What is the realistic annual salary range of newly minted pilots that I see on ATP’s website when they are hired into their first airline job?
What Do Pilots Really Earn? Also, I recommend checking out ATP’s “career guide” that is available on their website, it is a fantastic tool with tons of information.
With that, how many hours does one fly a month? I understand starting out I’d have no seniority so I’d likely get the less desirable flights (but to me, flying as a pilot, would be a win no matter the day of the week/time because it would mean I “made it”).
I’m just curious how often you are away and how much time one is at home?
I recommend checking out our “Schedules” section as it will give you a real good idea of what our monthly schedules look like, pay particular attention to mine and Tory’s. I would plan on 72-85 hours per month and 12-16 days off per month.
Would I likely be able to find a job here in the Chicago area? Is this a good area of the country to catch on with a regional airline like most talk about getting hired by as one’s first job?
I believe that there are several airline with bases in ORD and I think many of them are “junior” bases.
So with 65 being the mandatory retirement age, are pilots still able to work/fly after this in some other capacity if one wanted?
Maybe. There is always the corporate world, but plenty of airline pilots have the same idea and at some point, nobody wants to see a 70 year old pilot flying their family around.
I hope this helped to answer your questions, let us know what other ones you have.