Just as a reminder, it’s VERY easy to get a DUI. Especially in Georgia. If the prosecutor can’t get a conviction on the Per Se violation(.08 and higher), than they’ll seek a conviction on the Less Safe DUI. That’s right. In Georgia, you’ll get two tickets. And if there’s ANY alcohol in your system, even less than .08, it’s STILL a DUI. And that’s probably the reason the FAA doesn’t bother with single conviction cases or even those as high as .15 BAC( and THAT’S WASTED, folks), because its so common.
Although I’d unfortunately agree that DUIs are much more common in society than we like to admit and it be great if we had a simple solution to decrease them; the FAA, Airlines, and Canada take them seriously.
Every State is different. Georgia has its laws, some States it’s a Felony, some it’s a Traffic Citation, some a BAC of .01 is DUI for under 21… and now many young people are learning that riding an Escooter or Ebike after a few drinks is just as much a DUI.
The FAA takes DUIs seriously.
For 1 DUI ever, more than 5yrs ago and under .15, the AME may issue a medical. The AME doesn’t have to, and will want a lot of info before signing their name on your cert.
DUI less than 5yrs ago the AME has to fill out this form and if any shaded box is checked, they have no discretion and you will be deferred to the FAA.
One of my friends is a former FAA attorney turned airline pilot, and another friend is former FAA admin now airline pilot. Their advice is always “If you have anything that might jeopardize your medical, talk to a lawyer first, then find a good AME that can/will work with you”. They specifically say this because AMEs have so much power.
Most AMEs are great, but going to an AME unprepared (missing documents, personal statement, etc), or having an AME that interprets something wrong or is overly cautious and defers you to the FAA will put you into the bureaucratic system that could take 6months-3years and possibly thousands of dollars on doctors, lawyers, tests, etc. Not to mention a 3yr delay is potentially $1.5 million lost (500k/yr near retirement).
@dpails Have all your paperwork and personal statements in order. I would read the FAA document and check off all the paperwork they want as best you can. I think Aviation Career Mentorship might have a few good AME names for these cases. Can go local too but I’d get referred.
Long story short. Try not to make these bad decisions, but if it happens then know what your walking into as best you can.
Chris F
Just as another reminder, know what’s even easier? Not getting a DUI. I’m know saint nor are the other tens of thousands of pilots who don’t have DUIs. Really not rocket science here folks. Had a drink? Don’t get behind the wheel period. RIDICULOUSLY easy.
What many of you don’t seem to grasp is the fact that people driving under the influence cause deaths (approx 30 per day). This sense of “invulnerability” doesn’t translate well to aviation. Here’s a quick CRM lesson for y’all. Airlines want pilots who can follow the rules. Know why? Because pilots who follow the rules are better, safer pilots. When asked if they consider themselves to be “safe” pilots you know what the number 1 answer given is? Because “I’ve never had an accident or incident” (same response as people who drive under the influence). This is called “outcome based” thinking and has been proven to be ineffective for decades. A common example given is a parent who let’s their kid play ball in the driveway. Everyday the ball rolls into the street and nothing happens. One day it rolls out and the kid gets killed by a car and everyone proclaims this was a bad “unsafe” parent. If the kid never got hit would the parent (or the situation) be any safer? Of course not. It was simply that their luck ran out on that day. Pilots who are non-standard and won’t follow the rules increase the level of risk dramatically (which is the exact opposite of your job description). There are many threats pilots encounter on every flight, the pilot themselves shouldn’t be one of them.
Finally since the theme of this (and all the posts we get on the subject) is hiring I’ll leave you with this. Fortunately (or not) we’re now in a pilot shortage. Years ago a single DUI and you were done. Now due to the shortage the standards have been lowered but that doesn’t mean everyone is happy about it. You may get your First Class, you’ll probably make it to a Regional and you may even get to a Major. BUT, you also may run into some old crusty like me who thinks you’re irresponsible and forfeited your right to fly the day you got behind the wheel with something in your system and jeopardized the lives of others. If that happens you’ll get a thumbs down. You’ll never know why but if you’ve got a DUI on your record the chances are good that was the reason and it wasn’t because “it’s easy to get a DUI”, or the cop was unreasonable, etc etc. It was because YOU made a very bad decision that could’ve cost people’s lives and the airlines don’t like pilots who do that.
Adam
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Don,
Here is a story. I went out to dinner last week with some co-workers. I had to drive my car from the dinner back to the hotel. Knowing this, guess what I ordered? A Diet Coke. It is really easy to not get a DUI. Simply never drink and drive. Your attitude towards this will not go far in an aviation interview with any airline. DUIs are a huge deal, for both the FAA and the airlines.
Chris
4 Likes
I would just like to throw my 2 cents in and give you guys a personal testimony. I used to (and still do) read this website heavily for any advice for my situation. I received a DUI several years ago before I started flight training. I officially quit my job and started training a few years ago. I went to an AME and received my First Class on the spot. But afterwards I still had to explain everything to the FAA (basically so they can have it on record). They determined I was eligible for a first class and that was that.
Fast forward to years later, I finally reached 1500 and I was super nervous about applying. I made sure I had the Canada Clearance IN HAND before interviewing. That is a really great tip that I picked up from Cforeo7! I listed the DUI on the application and I received 5 call backs from regionals. I only took 3 interviews and got 3 CJOs. INCLUDING a couple very reputable regionals with guaranteed contractual flow programs.
I say all that to say it can be done. I know it’s hard for the mentors sometimes to relay this information, because they, fortunately, have not been in the same boat. But I wanted to post this because most likely there are people looking at this website (just like I was) and trying to gouge is it worth a shot. I took a leap of faith, and it paid off. DO EVRYTHING you can on your journey to 1500 to offset the DUI (i.e. Join the Safety team, Get a gold seal, IGI, etc…) Just some tips from a fellow aviator who was given a chance.
Hopefully this helps!
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John,
Those are some really good tips. I would not have thought about having the Canadian clearance before interviewing, but it sure makes a lot of sense.
Chris
You’re missing my point. DUI is NOT a crime of moral turpitude(and I’m talking ONE offense), even though YOU think it is. And assuming there was no physical or property damage done, and the BAC is in the sub .08 range, it can happen, and DOES happen to ANYONE. Yes, you are correct. It’s very easy to NOT get one, also. But alcohol is a legal drug. Prohibition wasn’t a raging success, my friend, and just because you DON’T see a DUI conviction on an pilot’s application doesnt mean he/she never had a beer and got behind the wheel. Just means he/she didn’t get CAUGHT.
Don,
I’m not going to debate this subject (other than I never said it was a morality issue, but more one of intelligence or lack there of). Beyond that I simply ask that if/when you ever get an interview, you defend your record with the same enthusiasm you have above and let me know how that works out for you.
Peace out
Adam
4 Likes
Don,
I must admit, I have never seen anybody defend DUIs with such passion before. DUIs do not happen to anyone, because many of us NEVER drink and drive, not even one drink. I do think it is a morality issue as drinking and driving risks people’s lives.
Chris
4 Likes
I would like to pick you brain on what you did because you seem to have the most similar situation. I have one DUI on my record, nothing else. Never had anything before or since. It has been 7 years since i got it and would be 8 or 9 years by the time I’m ready to try and get a job after flight school and building hours.
Joe,
This one is easy. If in fact you just have the one DUI and your record is clean otherwise you’ll be fine. If it’s not you won’t be.
Adam
Adam,
Yes it’s just the one DUI, have nothing else on my record besides maybe a seat belt ticket but I don’t know if that is even a recordable thing, but no arrests or incidents of any kind besides the DUI.
Joe,
I think you will be fine as well, but you absolutely must keep your record 100% clean moving forward. As always, we recommend you contact a few airlines and ask them directly.
Chris
If you have been over 5 years since completion of your conviction duties, you can apply for Criminal Rehabilitation into Canada. I would do that as soon as possible. Just show them how you’ve changed.
Also another great tip to make it to the majors eventually…just get on with a regional that has a flow as a backup plan. That’s what I did. I know it can change but it does give you a peace of mind, and realistic hope.
And I know this for a fact because I can 100% with certainty remember…when they told me to list convitions…it said plainly to not list anything that has been sealed or expunged because they cannot legally consider it. It greatly varied by company due to their respective state laws.
Your medical application will usually ask for arrests. But I’m fairly certain that airlines aren’t previewed to that information because of HIPPA. IF you got a first class with no restrictions, they have to take it at face value.
Long story short I did make myself stand out in other ways. I got my Bachelors. Gold Seal, Volunteer work. And a few recommendations.
Just some tips.
With all due respect John, this statement is one huge contradiction. The key statement is " It greatly varied by company due to their respective state laws", hence, depending on the airline and state it varies so you cannot say it with “100% certainly”.
Now you are right, the airlines can’t check your medical records but the Feds absolutely can when the airline applies for your SIDA or other airport security badge.
Long short, if a person has had a single DUI and there’s been some time, they can and will be hired. There’s no need to risk it however looking for tips or loopholes because the truth will come out.
Adam
Not being pessimistic but that “100% certainty” referred to me remembering that statement. Not that it applies to all airlines.
I think you are right. You should be as truthful as possible. But if it says not to list anything because “XYZ” and you fall into that category. Don’t list it. That is not being untruthful one bit. That’s not a loophole.
Don’t shoot yourself in the foot when it’s not called for. But be as honest as possible, no matter how painful. But also try not to put yourself, like I, in those situations to begin with. It will make applying easier.
John
Hi. I was wondering the likelihood of me becoming a pilot. I have thought about it for a while now and would like to pursue it. I got a dwi 10 years ago, totally my fault and was stupid of me. I also got a public intoxication 18 years ago. I have worked for SWA for 13 years as a flight attendant. Can someone give me some insight if I’d be eligible to be a pilot with a major airline or even a regional? Thank you so much.
Cory,
While a few years ago a DUI was the kiss of death, the environment has changed and the airlines and the FAA are somewhat more tolerant provided you’ve kept yourself clean the past 10yrs.
The first step will be to obtain your First Class medical and the FAA will probably defer an answer until they can investigate.
Long short its def possible but you may have to jump through some hoops.
Adam
1 Like
Thank you Adam hopefully I’m able to get through those hoops.
Cory,
I think if you can obtain a First Class Medical and have a totally clean record other than those two things, you should be fine. As you are already a SWA employee, I recommend calling their pilot recruiting department and discussing it directly with them.
Chris
1 Like