Adam,
More questions…I’ve contacted a local flight school that offers a program that will get you your CWII in two years or less. When I spoke with the ATP representative they were claiming that I would be certified in 6 months then have 1-1/2 years of flight instructing to get my 1500 hours needed to get a job…is 6 months realistic? The adviser I just spoke with at the local flight school said it would be more like a year to get to this point, then I would still have the 1500 hours of flight time to be completed. He also stated that it doesn’t matter where you get your certification from because it’s all the same training no matter where you go. What would you suggest doing? Did you go to ATP? Were you able to finish in 2 years or less?
Robert
Happy to hear I’m not the only one thinking of a career switch - I’m 45
Adam - Think I’ve almost convinced myself that making the switch will be ok - i don’t need to be a Captain but for whatever reason i’m not enthusiastic about being a CFI. Are there any other paths to the 1,500 hour requirement? I’m currently about 2/3 of the way doing my private with about 40 hours.
Robert,
Ok a few things. First yes I did do my training at ATP and I too had my doubts. When I started I already had my PPL so I signed up for the their 90 Day Fast Track (it’s now 100 Day) and no, I did not complete the training in 90 Days, I finished in 87 days and since there was no 1500hr rule, I was flying for ExpressJet 5 mos later! Now I’m not here to bash your local flight school, there are many out there and many pilots got their starts at the local FBO. BUT, the one of the main reasons I went to ATP was because while I got my ME rating, my Instrument rating, my CPL and all 3 CFII’s (FI, MEI, III) in 87 days with ATP, it took me almost 2 yrs to get my PPL at the local flight school. The reality is most local flight schools simply aren’t equipped to handle students who want to train full time. They don’t have the instructors or the aircraft. This was a typical scenario when I was working on my PPL, have a 2 hr lesson, the next week the instructor was booked, the week after the plane was out for maintenance, the next week the weather was bad, etc. Next thing you know it’s been a month and when you finally do fly it’s been a month and you’ve forgotten everything. At ATP you and your instructor are bound together full time and you BOTH will be available 5 days a week. If the plane needs maintenance there’ll be another (ATP currently has 276 airplanes). If the weather’s bad in the am, you’ll go fly in the pm etc. The program is based on a formula that’s been proven for decades.
As for all training being equal, ask your local flight school how many of their students have gone on to the airlines? ATP literally has hundreds and I personally know dozens who are at United, Delta and American, plus those I work with at Hawaiian. I hate to sound like a salesman (and I’m not. I honestly receive no compensation if you sign up or not) but there really is no more efficient route to the airlines. The program was created by retired airline pilots to train pilots for the airlines and the program was modeled after actual airline training.
Again not bashing and maybe even give them a try and get your feet soggy but if you’re serious…
Adam
Understood. I’m just exploring all options right now. My biggest hurtle is moving my wife from home to go train!!! I think she would like Florida though. Thanks again for the honest opinion. You probably haven’t heard the last of me yet!
Kirk,
You definitely can be a Capt, it’s a question of what airline and what equipment you’ll be flying? Regardless you will eventually be wearing 4 stripes (which trust me is very cool).
There are but there’s not many. There are small commuter/cargo carriers that since they aren’t 121 (scheduled airline) operations can hire you at 250hrs. Again though there aren’t that many. There are some other gigs out there banner tow, glider tow, cropdusting, traffic reporting. It really depends on where you’re located and doing some digging. That said I have to say while I didn’t love instructing it is incredibly valuable experience. There’s nothing like sitting next to a newbie who seems to be doing every humanly possible to kill you both to make you sharp! 
Adm
2 Likes
Kirk,
From all the research I’ve done thus far, being in our 40’s isn’t necessarily a draw back with the shortage of pilots. Although we may never make captain of a 777 there seems to be an abundance of opportunity with the regional airlines at the very least. I don’t know about you…but I’m ready for a change and not being behind a darn desk any longer!
Robert you are absolutely correct. The Regionals are having huge staffing issues since the Majors are sucking up all their pilots. As an older pilot, while you may decide to move on, there’s a good chance you won’t. That makes you a good investment. It costs ALOT of money to train a pilot and having them leave after only a few years is a huge expense. the fact you guys are older (like me) also opens other opportunities in training and mgmt. if you’re interested. I became an instructor at ExpressJet when I was there and was making about $120k flying every other month. Good times.
Adam
That’s the direction I’m looking at right now. How many hours a month did you fly to make $120K? I’ve read that the average is 85 hours…is this true?
Robert,
The average is probably about 85 but you’ll find most pilots will either be max guys (95-100 hrs) or min guys (75) depending on their financial needs (or maybe they just like to fly?). Again I was able to get my pay up considerably by working as an instructor. Instructor pay is higher AND as an instructor you can actually work more than the 100hr FAA limit because it’s not all flight time so you can fly AND have “soft” classroom time.
Adam
Gotcha. Thanks again…
HI There! My name is Enrico, 42 years old and I have already started the process of setting everything right to start training. I just want to jump in here as It seems the proper thread and introduce myself and just share my thoughts and ideas so far to see if I am in the wrong or right track and get more feedback and advice.
i am original from Quito - Ecuador and moved to Daytona about 11 years ago. For the past 33 years I have flown model airplanes just to be able to be close to my dream of flying real airplanes. I have soloed in Hang glider and flown right seat in cessnas and ultralight aircraft and have been allowed to handle most of the flight without taking off or landing. So familiar with flying, yes.
I currently work in Human resources (for the past 7 years) and do have a 4 year degree in finances and live in Daytona Beach! So far, ATP is one of my first choices, although my first two phone calls with them were not quite what you would categorize as a welcoming experience. Yet I find that I will need a fast track of 6 mo to get going. I have resources for 7 mo without an income and after that, clock start ticking!
Back to training. My plan is to start training in June 2017. I chose that date because being 42 now, married and with two kids, I have obligations that won’t let me jump head to toe. I will be starting from zero so it is tempting to do it as quickly as possible.
Given that I have plenty of time, I was thinking of starting with ground school already just to give me a good head start. Is that something advisable and if so, were can i find material to do this?
After completing training, I will need to get a CFI job and start building flight hours and generating any sort of income. How guaranteed is that you become an instructor for them, and if you do, how is the pay?
My goals are not too ambitious. I would like to find a good regional airline where I can stay. Not sure if I will make it to be captain in a major but yes, I would certainly would like to be one in the Regionals.
Also I am good at instructing, actually I serve as head instructor for the company I work for, so does every airline has instructor positions?
I’m sure I will have more questions but in the meantime, thank you guys for doing this! I have read through many of your advice everywhere in the website and find it very useful!
Enrico
Enrico,
Welcome to the forums! I am sorry that you did not have the best phone calls with ATP, rest assured that you are welcome here and at aTP in general.
June 2017 is a bit away, so it does make sense to start on a ground school now. I would purchase the Jeppesen Private Pilot manual http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/private-pilot-jeppesen.html?utm_source=google_shopping&m=simple&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Pilot+Training&adpos=1o1&creative=74939068702&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CJyXmI-wrdACFQFDhgodg28NVQ Hint: look on eBay for a much cheaper price. You might also want to think about purchasing the video series that goes with it. Once you start to feel comfortable in the material you could start studying for your private pilot written exam. That will be a different book, which you can also find used rather cheaply.
ATP fully guarantees that you will be offered a slot in their CFI standardization course, it is up to you to pass that course. That being said, by that point you will have already made it through the program, so it shouldn’t be too difficult for you. You can find out more information about that here: https://atpflightschool.com/airline-career-pilot-program/guaranteed-cfi-job.html Look at the chart on the right to get an idea of the pay, I would plan on 80-100 hours of flight time per month.
Yes, all airlines have instructors as they all have training departments to train their new pilots and ones that are upgrading to Captain.
Please feel free to ask us any more questions that you think of, we are happy to help
Chris
After graduation at ATP, will you be a CFI or CFII? If not, is this extra or something that can be accomplished at ATP?
After graduating ATP you will be a CFI, with your II (instrument) and MEI (multi-engine). This is all of the CFI ratings that you can have for fixed wing airplanes, there is nothing else that you would need.
Chris
Understood. Thank you for the advice.
Anytime, that is what we are here for.
Hi Enrico,
Jeppesen revises their manuals every few years but aerodynamic theory hasn’t really changed much since the Wright brothers so if you can find a good deal on some dated stuff I’d do it. Also keep in mind once you formally sign up with ATP
you can request your materials early so if you want to wait a few months and get all the goods that way you can.
Work hard and do well and you’ll have no issues securing an ATP instructor position. You may have to be flexible with the location. I appreciate you have a family but the sooner you start building time the better. I’d discuss with my wife the possibility of you being elsewhere for a few months until you can get back to Daytona.
I was an instructor at ExpressJet and have just been signed off to teach at Hawaiian and I can tell you for certain airlines are ALWAYS looking for pilots with teaching skills. While some will hire from outside, many have it in the contracts they must hire from the pilot group AND it also gives the training dept and the instructor “street cred” if he’s one of their own.
Keep the questions coming!
Adam
Hi Adam,
So they will likely move you from you schooling location to be an instructor? Also, this may be something I want to ask ATP, but what is the schedule like at ATP? 5 days a week, 8 hr day?
Robert,
They won’t necessarily move you but there’s no guarantee as to your location as an instructor. It’s based on the needs of ATP. They will accommodate your request if possible but again no promises.
The instructor schedule is typically 5 days a week however the hours can and will vary. Weather, flying requirements (cross country, night, etc) may require longer or shorter days.
Adam
Understood. Thanks again!