Thank you for sharing this article Adam, good reminder how critical it is to understand problem solving during emergencies and how important communication is in the cockpit.
After reading this article I must first say that I feel so bad for the Mesa captain that was jumpseating on that flight. While reading this article, as I began to read all of his failures and discrepancies during training my first thought was, “How did this guy even get a job?” Then I further read about how he lied to cover it up. It seemed like the captain of that flight also had some difficulties as well. After reading this article, some questions came to me. First, when you fail a checkride or washout of training does it not get recorded, do companies not check IACRA for any failures during the hiring process, or are companies just relying on a person’s integrity when the question of any checkride failures come up? I also didn’t realize that airline pilots could ride jumpseat on cargo flights as well. So based on the article you guys could ride jumpseat on a FedEx flight that is going to your desired destination?
Al,
Frankly I’m surprised as well. The airlines have access to PRIA (Pilot Record Improvement Act) from the FAA and based on my understanding of it, the pilot’s failures should have been picked up? That said there is this whole pilot shortage everyone is so excited about. While many have benefitted salary and hiring wise as a result, it has also resulted in the lowering of standards. Even after being hired this pilot required a fair amount of additional training. In the past the pilot would’ve washed out, now the airlines need to be more lenient.
The reason I posted this article was as I stated at the top. While I understand and appreciate everyone’s desire to get through training, build hours and get to an airline ASAP, the point of all the training is not just the means to the end. The fundamentals are critical and not having good basic flying skills can literally make the difference between life and death. The same lack of basic skills killed over 200 people on Air France 443. As pilots we have a personal and professional responsibility to be as skilled, proficient and knowledgeable as possible. Unfortunately that doesn’t seem to be the primary focus of many and that’s alarming.
Adam
Oh ok I got it now. Yes its pretty scary for myself and I am still in flight training. I know you are probably not going to be surprised when you hear this story I am about to tell you…
So I was on the phone with an acquaintance yesterday. We are on spring break so I am back home but he decided to stay at school and finish his instrument rating over break. Well, during our conversation I asked how his progress is going on getting his instrument rating and he told me that he took his checkride on Friday. After I asked him how did he do, he casually told me that he failed it. Now keep in mind this guy also failed his private the first go around as well. Now I’m not an airline pilot as you guys are so hopefully I wasn’t being to big for my britches but I kinda gave a small soliloquy about how he needs to take his training a little more serious. And he responded to me with this line, “It doesn’t matter because there is a pilot shortage and airlines are hiring anyone and everyone with the rating and hours.” And as you know and mentioned above, he is not the only one that I ran across with that attitude. I always seem to hear " AIRLINES NEED ME" somewhere in a conversation. As a matter of fact, during orientation the presenter is always saying "This is the perfect time to be a pilot, there’s a massive shortage and hundreds of thousands of pilots are going to be needed in the next X amount of years and so on. And he/she isn’t wrong but I think that people are going through flight training and wanting to be a pilot literally ONLY because there is a shortage. Not trying to beat a dead horse but again its pretty scary and I do feel bad for captains like y’all that have to do 4 day trips with people of this mentality. Not only is it probably annoying but as I’ve read, it can also be a safety risk.
Question for you, does this article make you a little more hesitant to ride in the jumpseat? Also, are you allowed to say anything while riding the jumpseat concerning the flight? Why did the Mesa captain wait until it was too late to say something?
Al,
As I said it’s alarming. Many seem to only be concerned about busts as to how it might affect their getting hired vs maybe there’s some skills I probably should have and maybe I need to step it up. Very unfortunate.
As for the JS question not at all. First I generally JS on my own metal and know most of the pilots sitting up there. Second as a JSer you are an additional crewmember. While that doesn’t give you the right (nor is it good etiquette) to critique or make a whole lot of helpful “suggestions”, by all means if you see something potentially hazardous, not only are you allowed, it’s your responsibility (and most good CAs will include that in their brief).
As to why the JSer didn’t say or do something I have a hard rule of not “Monday Morning Quarterbacking” any pilot (particularly if they’re no longer here to defend their actions). I wasn’t there but there’s probably a lesson in there as well.
Adam
Also on the majority of cargo carriers I have JS’ed on, there is typically a large seating area just behind the cockpit. The door stays open but from the transcript, I’d guess he wasn’t actually in the cockpit during this phase of flight until he heard the bells and felt the pushover and decided to go up and check it out. I have no idea if that was the case, just wanted to point out that it’s a possibility.
I am absolutely speechless after having read this article. Wow, sounds like this FO should not have ever been allowed near an airplane.
What happened is very unfortunate and unbelievable, but at the same time this article reminds me to study hard and learn the materials not just by brain but also by heart. I wonder how the FO was when he was a flight student. He got his licenses so obviously he passed the checkrides, but multiple failures along the way? Cruised through flight school, but hit the walls when he got to the airlines?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but on a 767 wouldn’t there be multiple indicators of an impending stall than just the attitude indicator? The article makes it seem like the nose began to rise from the additional thrust and the FO couldn’t put two and two together.
Anderson,
There are multiple indications. Again none of us were there and they’re not here to tell us what they were thinking.
What I can tell you is if it were as simple as putting “two and two” together they wouldn’t be dead.
Adam
Yes, there would be a pitch limit indicator, a stick shaker and of course the buffeting of the airplane.
I don’t like to Monday morning quarter back, but it does sound like there were some deficiencies in this pilot’s skills.
I have been interested in the GTI3591 incident and Juan Brown I think does a good job of explaining the technical side of things. It’s a bit long but, I think he does a good job summing things up.
Link to the video is below:
Thank you for sharing that.
Adam now 2 1/2 years on.
Curious, from your past experience on the admin side, have you noticed any changes to hiring practices or research into someone’s background? Seems like an easy thing to find out if someone has been flying for other airlines vs being a real estate freelancer.
Chatter about a pilot shortage in 2019… and now (I believe) even more substantial. Have you seen any major changes over the last two years that airlines are taking to improve safety?
Steven,
No not at all. As we’ve been saying the Regionals are hiring like mad and former disqualifiers have been removed (ie, DUIs). With that said training is a good way of weeding out the weak.
The industry is the safest it’s been and is constantly improving.
Adam
Steven,
I think the airlines are really in a period of increased emphasis on safety, which is a good thing. We are spending more time in training than ever before at my airline and really emphasizing the important things.
I have not noticed any change in research into somebody’s background. There are federal laws that apply to much of that and the shortage will not change that.
Chris
This question might be dumb but I’m going to make it anyways since I don’t know the answer
If you are a FO and the captain who I believe has the final word in what is done inside the cabin commits a failure or a series of failures, does that affect the track record of the FO even though he doesn’t agree with what the captain is/was doing ?? Can you as a FO request to not work with that captain if you see some kind of recklessness in his performance?? Can you clear your record if you where not in agreement with what the captain was doing??
I guess if it’s vice versa, that the FO commits a failure then it is also responsibility of the Captain because he is the one responsible for what happens during the flight, am I correct??
Francisco,
I’m not really sure what you mean by “failures” or if you’re talking about training or actually flying but since you talk about not flying with that pilot again I’ll assume you’re referring to the line.
We don’t really use the term failures but ALL pilots make errors, we’re human and things happen. Your job as an FO is to point errors out if you recognize them. If your Capt is mistaken and pulls rank on you you can (and maybe should) report it. Regardless unless you end up on the 6 o’clock news no one will ever know. There is no “track record” and yes if there’s a Capt you feel is unsafe you can bid around them or even “no fly” them.
You are correct the Capt is the “ultimate authority” on the flight deck and if you mess up its on them. This is why most Capts are pretty safe and are far from reckless. But again it’s not like at the end of every flight there’s a report of the good and the bad. Most of the pilots I’ve flown with over my career do an excellent job but again every day, on every flight errors are made. That is called the inevitability of human error. The idea is to catch, manage and mitigate those errors before they turn into an “undesired aircraft state”.
Adam
Yes you got it. I meant errors that could possibly stay in your record as a pilot and affect you in future upgrades, interviews, etc. I need to build my aviation vocabulary