Mason,
The applications ALL ask do you have a 4yr degree? If you have one you can check that box, if you don’t you can’t. While not required a degree is ALWAYS preferred and will ALWAYS make you more competitive.
Adam
1 Like
Are Airlines the most sought after “end goal”? I don’t know anything about cargo except their pay is just as good if not better In the long run.
Mason,
Major cargo carriers like FedEx and UPS ARE airlines. They just carry boxes and not passengers. They’re just as challenging to get hired at a well and as you say pay very well.
The “end goal” is for you to decide. Whether it be passengers, cargo or corporate, the path is the same. You need to get trained and then build time and experience.
Adam
Steven,
Yes, the old model across most of the industry for pilots was to embrace the suck year 1. The main argument behind that was to offset training costs. It’s going away in most of the industry finally.
When I left SkyWest I was getting paid as a 3yr Capt (about $91/hr) and had a line where I credited 100hrs/month pretty easily.
Moving to Spirit, about 3 months are training pay @ ($1700/month), followed by 1yr FO pay ($61/hr) and Reserve line of about 72hrs/month.
Haven’t been here long but Spirit is a good company and culture is very good from what I’ve seen so far. They are lagging behind other Majors pretty dramatically with pay and we’ve lost some great pilots because of it.
Hopefully within the next year we can get a new contract that is better in line with other Majors. There is a chance it gets dragged out until a merger completes (2-4yrs away) and I think many will leave if that’s the case.
Chris F
1 Like
Very good info Adam, thank you!
Lastly, before my intro flight this Sunday I’d like to ask if jumping right into ATP school from zero experience is the best path?
My thoughts are; yeah of course the intro flight will be awesome but that’s really something I’m doing for pleasure. It’s another thing to have to do it daily as a job.
As Hannah once mentioned that she didn’t like flying until her third time up, what if this is the case for me but I end up having doubts?
Would it be more wise to start my PPL at my local airport that way if there are any doubts, I don’t need to worry about getting a refund for 90k worth of schooling?
Mason,
Plenty of people argue back and forth about that.
Flying isn’t for everyone and you could potentially “save money” or pay less now by getting your private at a small flight school.
I knew flying was what I wanted, knew I could afford it, and knew ATP was the fastest way, so that made my decision easy.
Its up to you,
Chris F
1 Like
Mason,
For some, they knew without a doubt that they wanted to become a pilot. So starting at ATP from zero made sense for them. Others weren’t 100% sure that they would truly love it after some time and chose to obtain their PPL elsewhere.
This is what I did because I had never flown before. Plus, I am the first in my family to become a pilot so it was all very foreign and intimidating to me.
Start with the intro flight and go from there. Maybe you will need to fly a few more times? Perhaps not. But if you are having doubts, maybe obtaining your PPL first is a smart decision? Just be careful when going this route. It could take a lot longer and cost a lot more than it should if you are not dedicated and/or the school is unorganized.
That said, if you begin to gravitate towards ATP, I am not a salesman, but it is worth noting that the program is designed to teach someone with zero experience. ATP also has an 80% success rate and has had over 1200 airline placements in the last year alone. But you are right, the program is full-time and it is no walk in the park. You will have to make the judgement call.
Tory
3 Likes
Mason,
I too was worried about going into 90k worth of debt after just an intro flight, so I wanted to take a few lessons to ensure this is what I wanted to do. Right now I am actually taking lessons at my local school (shares the same airport as ATP’s school, so I get a little experience with their tower) and I’m likely going to do enough to get to soloing. I think that’s a good stopping point for me personally before I enroll full time, but your mileage may vary.
Ben
1 Like
Mason,
I’m actually going to agree with Ben here. The intro will give you a taste and if you feel you’re ready, by all means dive in, if not don’t.
However getting your PPL locally will most likely cost you more and may even frustrate you to the point of quitting. The fact is local flight schools for the most part are set up for the casual, recreational weekend warrior. With that in mind if you’re not certain then definitely take a few lessons or 10, (perhaps up to your first solo) but to the point where you can say with confidence “yea this is what I want to do” or not. The fact is while many people like the idea of being a pilot, once you start training you may find you do not and that’s ok. At least you know.
Adam
1 Like
Mason,
It’s not that I didn’t like flying, I just couldn’t finish a flight without getting sick. My body needed time to adapt before I could commit to an accelerated program. I knew I couldn’t waste any flight time once I started by getting sick and having to return to the airport. Once I flew a few more times, I stopped getting sick and had fallen in love with the beauty of flying and the constant challenge it created. After that I couldn’t stop thinking about it and had absolutely no doubts on beginning my career.
Take an intro flight or a few… you’ll know if you’re all in or not. If you’re not, take it easy. Dip your toes and fly some more at a local airport. Definitely don’t commit to the ATP program until you’re sure.
Hannah
2 Likes
Thank you all for the great info and your personal experiences! Definitely helps with my potential future of something that will turn out amazing for me.
Hoping weather is good this Sunday, I’ll be back on here to let you know how my intro flight went!
Hi everyone,
I finally had my admission flight today and it was amazing. I had never been in such small plane and much less in the front seat. I just wish we could have stayed longer, I was really enjoying it.
My next steps are to get some personal paperwork done and to try to convince my family that I’m not crazy for wanting to change career path from being and engineer to a pilot
Some questions that came after reading other posts:
If you interview with an airline and don’t get accepted, can you reapply after certain time ?? How long?? would they reconsider you??
@Hannah I read that you worked in Part 135 before going to the airlines, what are the the pros and cons and what made you make the change (Leave P135 to the airlines) ??
Thanks,
1 Like
Francisco,
Yes. It depends on the airline but most will let you reinterview after 6mos. In fact I believe Delta just reduced their reinterview time to 90 days due to the pilot shortage.
Adam
Francisco,
Well I started ATP to become an airline pilot. Unfortunately when I hit my 1500 hours, not a single 121 operator was hiring. Instead I looked for other options. My time in the 135 world was enlightening. There was a lot of things I liked and some things I didn’t. Ultimately when hiring opened back up at the regionals, I resumed my plan of becoming an airline pilot.
Key differences:
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Schedule- most charter carriers do block scheduling. 8 days on/6 days off. No bidding, predictable and long blocks of time off. I wasn’t a fan of 8 days on. I prefer more of an airline schedule of 3/4 day trips followed by 2 days off. Bidding can be tricky, but it’s nice to have more control over your monthly schedule.
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Pay- initially much more lucrative. I was making regional captain pay as a first year FO. However over the course of a career, you’ll make exponentially more as an airline captain.
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Flexibility (home based)- since I don’t live in base, not having to worry about a commute was huge for my quality of life. Home based means you can live wherever you want and the company pays for your ticket to get to and from work.
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Daily tasks- It’s much easier to be an airline pilot. There is a team of people with tasks to make the flight happen safely and efficiently. Dispatchers do the brunt of the flight planning, rampers load bags, cleaners make the cabin presentable, flight attendants deal with customer service… pilots just fly the airplane. On the 135 side, there were no dispatchers, no ramp crew, no flight attendants, no cleaners. We were a “2-man band.” Typically the capt was responsible for the flight planning while I cleaned the cabin, weighed and loaded the bags, met the passengers, boarded and briefed them and served them in cruise flight.
Hope this helped.
Hannah
1 Like
Hannah
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Do all airlines give that flexibility (home based)??
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Then I suppose there’s a rush to be captain at part 135 so you don’t have to do the cleaning, serve food, etc
Mason,
If you have doubts, then yes, I would recommend starting your PPL at a local flight school. I would at least get to the solo phase before you make a decision.
As for your degree question, the majors have all dropped the degree requirement, but the degree certainly helps and is often what makes the difference between getting an interview or not. The good news is that many of the national airlines like Spirit or Frontier do not require degrees at all. Furthermore, many colleges will give credit for your flight training, so that should help. While the electrician and crane operator’s licenses are interesting, I doubt they would ever come up in an interview and there is certainly no question that asks about either on an airline application.
Chris
1 Like
Francisco,
Home basing is a strictly part 135 thing. With smaller pilot bases and no hard routes, I imagine it just isn’t as feasible to make hard bases. Part 121 Airlines have bases. If you don’t want to live in base that’s your decision but it’s your responsibility to be in base on time for your trips.
It’s a joint effort. As an FO, you know it’s one of your responsibilities but most captains help. At the end of the day, how presentable the aircraft is falls on the captain.
Hannah
If you have any desire to fly cargo, Atlas has home basing as well.
Adam
Hannah,
So you just naturally got over being sick? Do you have any tricks or tips? I am pursuing a flying career but so far cannot get through a small plane flight without getting sick. I am completely trying a new diet now, now that I ate bad before, but trying anything I can. Then going up again to see what happens…hoping for the best.