Pilot Taxes

Just a quick question,

Generally speaking when you see the average overall monthly/annual salary for a Pilot on ATP’s website, or Airline Pilot Central (these are the two I use when looking/comparing airlines in pay etc), are taxes taken into account, or should I be anticipating a little less than what’s posted?

Thomas,

No job that I am aware of posts a person’s salary in after tax dollars because everybody’s tax situation is different. People have all sorts of deductions that can vary greatly from one person to the next. I lose about 40% of my income to taxes and company deductions for things like health insurance, as does everybody else that works in this country. So plan your actual spending money to be much less than the salaries that are posted, but again, keep in mind that any job is like this.

Chris

Don’t be afraid to ask anything on here, I am an open book when it comes to this stuff, including financials as that is a huge part of making a decision as to what career to pursue.

I currently lose about 33-35%, so that doesn’t surprise me since you make a bit more than I, although I’m also in California so the taxes can be brutal if you’re not careful. That’s another thing to take into consideration, where you live can have a big impact on your tax situation, for example Nevada has no state income tax and Oregon has no sales tax… So if you make a lot, live in Nevada, and if you spend a lot move to Oregon. Better yet, live in Nevada during your career and move to Oregon when you retire!

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From a financial standpoint, yes I would plan to be a student in San Diego to get your fix, but instructing for ATP in CA wouldn’t be horrible so long as you’re willing to live in ATP housing for your full 2 years. To my understanding, the price of ATP housing is arranged and fixed regardless of where you are.

The taxes in California are high if you make good money, if you don’t make a lot then the taxes are less of an issue (for reference to what I paid in taxes, I made 91k in 2016). The biggest financial issues in California are state income tax and housing costs, living in fixed price ATP housing and making less than 40-50k per year would save you from both essentially. However, attempting to live in SD in private housing would be rough on low wages, and taxes would be quite high later in your career due to high earnings (although the high earnings would make it possible if so desired).

For my money, I plan to stay where I am for training due to being in the same apartment for the last 6 years (with kind landlords who have only once raised my rent), my current rent living alone is barely more than the $800/mo in ATP housing sharing a room :frowning:… After training I plan to go wherever has the best ratio of COL (cost of living) vs need for ATP instructors so I can pay off my loans as much/quickly as humanly possible. Unlike some of the people who have asked questions on here (nobody specific) I have no delusions about being able to live exactly where I want, or working exactly when I want, etc., I have no current ties or commitments to any one place and am willing to go wherever, and work whenever/whatever is required to get me in the best financial situation for the future (post ATP and associated loans).

Hope that all makes sense! If I need to clarify, or you want more CA specific info, just ask.

James

I missed the food prices part! Haha, if you’re willing and capable of cooking for yourself and eating at home food prices aren’t particularly bad, and we have wonderful fresh food since a big part of CA is dedicated to farming an extremely diverse selection of foods. If you want to shop at Whole Foods and eat organic everything, or you eat out a lot then it can get expensive but really your paying a premium for either beautiful organic ingredients or CA food service employees, or both. But where I live (15-20min from ATP KSAC) I can go to a farmstand on the side of a county road and get farm fresh vegetables/fruits/etc for practically nothing. SD isn’t too far from farms in the Imperial Valley and even the southern central valley, close enough that farmers markets are plentiful and not terribly overpriced. All else fails there’s a Safeway everywhere, and their prices seem to be about the same across the country (actually higher in some places since a lot of produce is coming from the CA central valley) but the quality and freshness in California is pretty darn good!

James,

I like your outlook on things. Keep that mindset and you will do well in this industry.

Chris

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Just a little insight, I have worked for target in Minnesota for 4 years and we had a higher up in our store transfer to California and his wage was higher significantly just because the cost of living out there is much higher, so I would say for most people if your job is based there you will make more, but for the airlines you make the same no matter where you live. It’s interesting but makes sense.

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That’s my plan too. I could care less where in the country I am living, as long as I’m building hours. Now if I fall in love with Florida on the next 8-10 months that may be a problem… :joy:

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Thanks Chris,

It doesn’t hurt that my grandfather was a very senior airline pilot for over 40 years so I had an inside line on the industry while he was alive, and I’ve known for a long time that to make it in this profession you just have to suck it up and do what’s required. I’m just thankful I’m able to do this, many, MANY stars had to align for this to be possible in my life and I’m proud to say I’m finally making it happen.

James

James,

I am so glad you are making this happen.

What airline did your grandfather fly for?

Chris

Tucker,

Avoid the beaches at all costs then :slight_smile:

Seriously though, I am glad to hear that. It is nice having guys with your kind of attitude join our ranks.

Chris

Well he flew for many during his career, he started flying at a Texas agricultural college training for crop dusting in the beginning of WWII, went into the Army Air Core after college and became a bomber instructor because they needed experienced pilots as instructors more than they needed bomber pilots, then moved to the far east and flew DC-3’s and
Curtiss C-46’s over the Himalaya’s (50+ trips over “the hump”) for the China National Aviation Corporation “CNAC” in the early 1950’s, then moved on to Singapore Airlines briefly before flying for the CIA in southeast asia for around 10 years (the only logbooks of his that I don’t have, obviously), eventually back in the US he flew for Saturn Airways, possibly one more and finally ended his career flying as a senior CA on the DC-10 for Transamerica Airlines in the early 80’s… Commercially he flew DC-3, DC-4, DC-6, DC-8, DC-10, L-382 (Hercules), and I believe briefly L-1011.

An interesting story from his flying career was that when Nixon made his state visit to China in Feb 1972 the Chinese govt requested that as few as possible US military planes flew into China for the visit so the US govt hired I believe Saturn Airways at that time to fly all the broadcast equipment and ancillary personnel over to china on charter, my grandfather having a ton of Chinese and Asian flying experience (on top of being one of their most experienced pilots) was asked to ferry much of it there in a Lockheed L-382 (aka L-100 Hercules, the civilian C-130). The trip was obviously long in that airplane with a ton of stops, hopping all over the south pacific I’m guessing to pick up different people/supplies and fuel. Anyway, I’d post a photo of the log but I don’t think we can post photos in here, he has around 20,500TT at this point in 1972, and the route was PHTO-RPMT-PWAK-PGUA-XSHA-XPEK (I can only assume XSHA is Hongqiao International Shanghai and XPEK was Peking but their identifiers aren’t the same as they were in 1972, in fact Peking is now Beijing!).

Sorry that got a bit long, but I hope everyone enjoyed the story! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

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Just to chime in here, as the others have said, I wouldn’t worry too much while you’re instructing because the income simply isn’t that great. But just as an FYI, Hawaii has a very high state tax and we have a number of senior Capts who actually moved to Nevada and Washington (where there’s no state income tax) and commute because at their income level they save $25-30k every year.

Adam

Thomas,

Unless you’re moonlighting as a holy man ALL money paid to you by your employer is taxable (and often “bonuses” are also taxed at a higher rate) . Welcome to adulthood :slight_smile:

Adam

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Hahahaha :joy:

Not to be overly technical here, but bonuses are not taxed at a higher rate, but taxes are withheld at a higher rate. At the end of the year it all washes out when you file your taxes. In other words, your annual tax is based on your total income, it doesn’t matter how much of that is bonus or regular pay.

You know what I meant AND it’s the withholding part that you see AND feel so…

Adam

If we want to be extremely technical, we should all be setting our withholding at 0 and paying our taxes outright at the end of the year (or better yet, exactly on April 15 the following year)… But who has the discipline for that these days?! :yum:

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I know, I was being a technical pain in the neck.

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