In the past few years i cant help but dream of getting out of the military and flying commercial. A dream i thought impossible as a civilian. I have been active duty in the Navy for almost 5 years, and have a little over 2 years left. The ‘plan’ as of now, is to get my private license while I’m still active duty, then transfer to an accelerated program like ATP, and finish my degree as a CFI. I am currently stationed in Pearl Harbor HI. I know there are a few private schools here that i can attend.
I have few questions any pilot familiar with the accelerated pilot training/ CFI program through ATP.
Is ATP worth my time and money if i have the option to go to a state school and have the GI bill pay for it? I know a few people that have gotten out of the military and are attending state schools all over. Though they seem like they barely fly, and it will take them up to 3 years to get a CFI.
Other than the airline sponsored tuition repayment program, are there any other avenues to ease the brunt of the loans i will have for the program? ($60,000+) I understand that this is an investment in my future, and 60,000 isn’t much considering people in my age group are paying up to $100,000 for a masters degree. just want get a feel for all my financial options.
Is it even possible to go to school and finish my degree as a CFI? I have a few credits from when i went to a community college before I joined. (around 40)
what is student life like at ATP? Is it more like a university as far as training is concerned? or is it strict like military schools?
As far as “is ATP worth it?” that’s something only you can decide. This is ATPs forum and we’re all pretty partial towards them but more than that I believe you answered your own question. Everything is based on seniority at the airlines so you’re talking 6mos vs years. Kind of a no brainer. As for the cost that’s 2yrs making airline Capt salary you wouldn’t otherwise which completely negates the cost.
Other than Tuition Reimbursement I’m not aware of any other financial relief. Another reason for going with ATP.
You could not finish college while training with ATP but you could once you get hired at a Regional as many people do.
Neither. It’s a flight training school and it’s intense. Since you signed up it’s up to you to keep up. No one will yell if you don’t you’ll just fail.
I would not use your GI benefits for flight training, for the very reasons you mentioned. It will take you forever and that is income from the airlines that will be forever lost. I would use your benefits for obtaining a degree.
I am not aware of anything else that will soften the blow. As you said, it is an investment in your future. Tuition reimbursement is the best thing out there, in my opinion.
I would not recommend going to college while you are a CFI, the demands of instructing are simply too much. I would recommend waiting until you are at the regionals and have more time available.
I would not say that ATP is like either a university or a military school, it is a flight school. You will have some classroom settings and some one on one, a lot of group study sessions. Many hours in a simulator and of course, flying.
I disagree with Adam’s assertion that nobody will tell you if you do not keep up. After each flight your CFI will review with you and see where you stand. If problems start to develop along the way, you will have a discussion with your CFI and perhaps management to see what can be done to get you back on track. You will not just simply fail.
Let me clarify. I wasn’t saying no one will tell you or even try and help you but ATP isn’t the military. There’s no brig or KP for poor performance, no demotions and you can get out anytime you want. Students need to have a certain amount of self discipline to be successful and can’t count on a Gunny Sgt to make sure they don’t eat a jelly donut.
I offer a different perspective, not better/not worse, just different.
I am a seperated military trained rotor pilot (Army warrant officer). I am looking for options to go to fixed wing/airlines oppurtunities.
If I were in your shoes again I would get as much college done as possible while still active duty. There are many opportunities available to you (most at very little cost), just have to seek them out. You also need to start a savings account and put as much in there as you can while your expenses are low. You could also seek out a military flight club, AOPA can help you locate them. If you happen to be close to one, they are an excellent way to get your PPL done. Some of these suggestions will work for your situation, some will not. A little sacrifice now, will likely save you a lot later.
Finally, continue to do your research. Airline needs have/and can change very quickly (overnight in the most extreme case). Be sure that you have an alternate/back up plan to pay off the large loans if you go that route.
Thank you for the reply! Apologies for my late reply. These responses came in at 0150 Oahu time.
I know I basically answered my own question back there. I guess I needed to hear it from someone that knows the business better than i do. The Navy college office just offered me a few state schools, like my colleagues before me. It’s practically free and they pay living expenses while in school but again that’s going to take a minimum of 36 months… it’s hard for me to imagine being 60,000 in debt since I’ve never had debt before. Maybe it’s just a military safety blanket that I need to crawl out from under. They all say I’ll be homeless in a year if I get out. Just trying to scare me.
I went through Navy Dive School and I was thinking it might compare to the training schedule at ATP. 0830-1600 class time/exams and practical. Not expecting someone to yell at me or anything, just the structure of my average day. show up in uniform, on time, strict deadlines on assignments and tests… Colleagues from universities have told me the flight schedules are more relaxed, and training is not hard at all. not expecting the same from ATP…
Thank you for the reply! As well, apologies for my late reply, as I received these notifications in the middle of the night Oahu time.
I’m bummed to hear that I cant use any other form of aid for the loans. I’m not dumb with my money and by the time I get out of the navy I could pay a large portion of the fees with my own money. however I would have depleted my safety net. I just ask because these would be the largest loans I have ever taken out, and the promise of free schooling from state schools sounds so enticing! I am aware of the catch. Time in the industry!
I also was not aware that I didn’t need a BA to fly for a regional airline. Are they all like that? I could definitely finish my degree by then. I’m not worried about the curriculum at ATP. I know ill study in my off time and continue to learn. I’m aware the YouTube has become a really good resource for pilot lessons. Are there any printed manuals on say… navigation, pilot practices, and airplane operations that you could recommend? In case I’m not able to get my PPL here, working in the shipyard.
I really need to start taking classes. No excuse not to take full advantage of TA while I’m in. I just need to get fully qualified here before I can start. maybe in the next few months. I’m sure there is a military flight club near me since there’s an air force base just down the road from me. I do have a healthy savings account, but I’m hesitant to drain my savings and my safety net. I’m planning on staying in the reserves to fulfil a 20 year obligation. Should anything happen to my career in aviation I still have my GI bill since I wont be using it on flight training. 36 months of school with BAH, or I could find a civilian dive job,or go back to active duty. I like to keep an open mind to all the possibilities. Best case, I’m a pilot. Worst case, I’m back on active.
It sounds like you have done a fair amount of thinking about this. At some point you will most likely have to take on some debt you reach the airlines. Continue to ask questions and research your options. Also be sure you have the best credit history you can when that time comes.
Good luck! I don’t think you will need it as you are asking the right questions and taking the correct steps.
I’m a student pilot looking into ATP. Use you GI bill to help pay for schooling. I got out of the Marine Corps in 2002 and my GIBill expired in 2017. If you were in after 2005 I believe, your GI Bill is life long. Won’t payfor much of flight school but some. I think ATP can work with you and the GI Bill.
GI Bill will also pay for Rotorcraft
Have to disagree Adam. I looked up GI Bill and ATP. Texas does have an ATP that allows veteran to use their GI Bill for Type rating, ATP Certification and Aircraft Dispatchers.
You are correct about the type rating, ATP certification and dispatcher ratings. But most people on this website are looking for flight training, which ATP is not able to accept the GI Bill for.
You’re 100% right. IF after you get your PPL, CPL, IR, ME and all your CFIs, then build your 1500 hrs and can’t manage to get hired by a Regional yes you can use your VA bennies to get your ATP and even a Type rating to fly your friend’s Airbus. Or if you decide this flying stuff is silly and want to be a dispatcher you can use it there as well.
Thing is Tyler who originally started this thread wasn’t interested in any of the above.
Thru the VA and ATP, the Federal government is trying a program to help the pilot shortage by helping to train prior military personnel. One of the prerequisites is that you can not have a PPL. When I found out about this I already had 30 plus hours into my PPL training. Seats are very limited in this program an several hoops to jump threw.
I saw a guy on here from the navy that was still active duty and thought it might help him. There is also a $$ cap, but as you know it’s not a cheap career to get into and it’s not easy. I’m 47 and wish I would have started when I was 30 after 12 years.
I also meet a lot of rotary pilots that are still active or reserve, flying for Life Flight that are working on transitioning into fixed wing.
Full program can be found at http://www.benefits.va.gov/gibill