Hello. I had a question regarding regional airlines and going to major airline. Does the regional airline you go to determine the major you go to? For example, Envoy is owned by American Airlines so if you fly for Envoy, does that mean you have to fly for American then or can you go to United for example after Envoy?
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Brad,
While some regionals have flows to a major, you are free to apply to any airline.
Tory
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Ok, thanks
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Sorry another question. Do you know if it would be difficult to be hired by United after flying for an American Airlines owned Envoy? Or would it be the same no matter what regional airline you fly for
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Brad,
It really doesn’t matter. The Majors hire pilots with time and experience and care little which Regional they flew for. In fact it’s sometimes preferable to fly for a Regional that’s not affiliated. Let’s say for whatever reason Envoy is short on pilots, the last thing AA wants to do is cannibalize their Regional partner so they’ll look to hire elsewhere.
Adam
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Brad,
I would disagree with Adam a little on this one. Up until a few years ago, this was the case. With the advent of programs such as United’s Aviate program, the paths are becoming more defined.
Chris
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Oh ok. So you’re saying the best path to United and the one you recommend is through the aviate program but it is still possible to do through envoy or another non affiliated airline
Brad,
That is correct.
Chris
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Brad,
You can make it to United a variety of ways. The regional you choose does not lock you in to your major so you don’t have to necessarily make that decision now. But yes you can go to Envoy and then go to United if you prefer. What Chris is getting at, there are many new distinct pathways to majors now. There are flows to American via Envoy or PSA and Aviates for United. So if you know that’s where you want to end up, the pathways are a great way to ensure getting there eventually. Plus you can start accruing major benefits and a seniority number when at the regionals so that’s a great benefit as well.
-Hannah
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Just to clarify a point, any seniority that is accrued while at the regional is for pass travel benefits only. Seniority for things like bidding always are always based off the date the pilot starts at the major airline.
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Brad,
I’m going to respectfully disagree (somewhat) with my esteemed colleague Chris and here’s why. There’s no question the Majors have all set up flows, pathways or whatever they call them as a defined route for their Regional partners. The question is why? Why after decades did they all collectively decide this is a good idea? Did they wake up one morning and say “boy do we love those Regional kids! Let’s do something nice for them because they’re so awesome!”. No, they did it because there was (and they believe there will be again) a huge pilot shortage and they feared they’d be caught short. While choices are good for the buyer (ie, the pilots), it’s not so much for the seller (ie, the airlines). So what do you do? You build brand loyalty. If they wait till you’re a Capt at a Regional with a nice resume, you’ve got choices. BUT, if they can lock you in early with a seniority # and travel bennies guess where you’re going? Even if another Major has a better contract you’ve already committed. Not that you have to go but there’s less chance of you bailing and you’re going to think long and hard before you do.
Thing is if you’re a free agent you’re gravy. Again they’re not impacting their Regional partner and you’re an extra pilot they weren’t counting on which is always a good thing. That’s why unaffiliated pilots sometimes get hired before the flows.
Listen, I’m not saying the paths are a bad thing and if it checks the boxes you want to check then by all means. I’m just saying if there’s a Regional that’s more attractive to you for whatever reason I wouldn’t let the fact they don’t fly for the Major you’re targeting dissuade you. Make sense?
Adam
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Brad,
I will have to agree with Adam on this. I think it depends on what you want and the candidate you are. For example, if you really want to fly for Envoy and United afterward and you have a 4year college degree, not too many checkride busts and a good safety record there isn’t any problem with it. There is a good chance you could interview well and get to United faster than guys in the Aviate program if the flow is slow. However, if you don’t have a college degree, maybe something on your record or a few too many busts, I’d take the flow opportunity and be greatful to get to the majors at all, even if it may take you longer.
The flows are the slower but safe option, knowing you will get there eventually. Or forging your own path you could get there sooner but you will have the risk of needing to interview and get the job at the major of your choosing.
-Hannah
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