SkyWest Seniority Domiciles, Line vs Reserve

Airline Pilot Questions & Answers
21

Hi Scott, appreciate the insights here. On the note of Seniority, I have a curtailed question that might be good for the forum and for clarification overall.

For those who are a bit older and more seasoned, perhaps making a career TRANSITION with more responsibilities to consider (spouse, kids, home-owner, etc.), how should one really view these things relative to super buttoned-up expectations once hired? (no crystal ball being asked for here…but a solid framework)

Seems like there’s a key distinction of two categories: Seniority as a CADET (which you respectively refer to as “company seniority”) and Seniority as a pilot (hired employee or what you called “pilot seniority”). Fair enough, got it.

But you also mention “seniority in class”. Well, if everyone entered class at the same start date, then I don’t see any other category of cadet seniority stratification for, say, 20 cadets other than their age. Do I understand this correctly? By “seniority in class”, do you mean age?

Ultimately it’d be helpful to know which category of these “Seniority” buckets GOVERN the bidding for domicile/base once offered a job. It seems like “Pilot Seniority” governs whether or not you’ll get a base/domicile of your choice. But if that’s the case, then where does the value of “seniority in class” come into play. Where would we see its benefit come to fruition?

It gets a little blurry with the various sub-categories of “Seniority” and what they really mean relative to fine-tuned expectations…which might matter more to the career transitioner (with established residence/mortgage/family etc.) than the cadet who might be single and renting.

Does this make sense? Standing by for your response.
Thanks Scott.

22

@Hannah @scottman
Hello Hannah, I figured I’d position my same question to you as I did for Scott P…as you also might know the answer (understanding everyone’s busy). See below…

Hi Scott, appreciate the insights here. On the note of Seniority, I have a curtailed question that might be good for the forum and for clarification overall.

For those who are a bit older and more seasoned, perhaps making a career TRANSITION with more responsibilities to consider (spouse, kids, home-owner, etc.), how should one really view these things relative to super buttoned-up expectations once hired? (no crystal ball being asked for here…but a solid framework)

Seems like there’s a key distinction of two categories: Seniority as a CADET (which you respectively refer to as “company seniority”) and Seniority as a pilot (hired employee or what you called “pilot seniority”). Fair enough, got it.

But you also mention “seniority in class”. Well, if everyone entered class at the same start date, then I don’t see any other category of cadet seniority stratification for, say, 20 cadets other than their age. Do I understand this correctly? By “seniority in class”, do you mean age?

Ultimately it’d be helpful to know which category of these “Seniority” buckets GOVERN the bidding for domicile/base once offered a job. It seems like “Pilot Seniority” governs whether or not you’ll get a base/domicile of your choice. But if that’s the case, then where does the value of “seniority in class” come into play. Where would we see its benefit come to fruition?

It gets a little blurry with the various sub-categories of “Seniority” and what they really mean relative to fine-tuned expectations…which might matter more to the career transitioner (with established residence/mortgage/family etc.) than the cadet who might be single and renting.

Does this make sense? Standing by for your response.

23

Seniority in class simply means how you rank vs the others in class. It starts with current employees of SkyWest (think FAs making the jump to pilot), followed by cadets based on hire date (the day you took your orientation class online) followed by everyone else according to age.

So:

SkyWest Employee > Cadet date of orientation > everyone else according to date of birth

That then becomes your pilot seniority: Seniority in February 1st 2024 class > Seniority in February 14th 2024 class, and so on. Pilot seniority doesn’t care whether you are married and homeowner vs single and renting. Merely where you rank according to everyone else. It may make a marginal difference in where you get assigned a base, but those needs vary month to month. You could be in the Feb 1st class and want LAX, but but wasn’t offered. So you get the next best option. You rank all the bases you want from 1-14 (or whatever) and you get what you get according to what’s available and your seniority. You can immediately put in for a base trade and there’s a chance you get assigned the base you want before you’re even done training.

Lastly… the class seniority is helpful, but not the end all be all. You get to bid for sim slots/times/locations according to seniority. However, you pair up with a partner and the bidding goes according to the person with higher seniority. So if you are student #5 in class, student #40 can partner with student #1 and then get a “better” time slot than what would later fall to them.

Hope this helps.

-Scott

P.S. I have since moved on to a major, so there is a chance some info on partnering may be dated, but that traditionally is the way it has been. Good luck!

24

Thanks @scottman ! Your insights are quite helpful.

Indeed, Pilot Seniority doesn’t care whether those personal/family factors are in play = totally get it. But the new hire obviously would care that they’re in play, insofar as it’s simply a fact of that new hire’s personal life/reality.

Just trying to get a feel for the employer/employee relationship @ SkyWest relative to how/IF they might consider those factors in placing a new pilot at a given domicile. Granting the difference between guarantees and probability factors, all the more important to get those expectations/parameters dialed-in with clear understanding sooner rather than later given the cardinal rule of Seniority.

Think of it this way…scenario based:

Cadet X is about to graduate or is about to sign a CJO…at what point should he/she be in talks with SkyWest (or any new airline) about domicile bids?

Cadet X resides in, say, San Diego. Therefore his #1 domicile of choice might be SAN. Well…doubtful SAN is a very junior base, so he/she ranks them accordingly:

  1. SAN
  2. PHOENIX
  3. TUCSON
  4. LAX
  5. SLC
  6. CO Springs
  7. Denver

Historically, from a probability standpoint, what are the odds Cadet X will get a realistic shot at options 2 - 5?

After all, Cadet X would probably prefer to be based closer to his/her residence. Moreover one would think that SkyWest would want that too in order to mitigate risk/snafus in their employee reporting on time without any hiccups in the commute, etc. (that’s at least decent business rationale…but perhaps it’s non-applicable in the airlines?)

Seniority accounted for…I’m trying to wrap my head around why an airline would/could “base” a new hire out of DTW knowing in advance that the cadet resides on the west coast.
Therefore, in theory, it seems like options 2 - 5 would ALSO be in the best interest of the airline to consider relative to this particular new hire. I’m just spitballin’.

But if it really (and only) comes down to where the “need”/opening is, coupled with seniority, and that’s final = totally get it, it is what it is. But I can see how a new hire faced with a transcontinental commute + married/family/personal life considerations would pass on the opportunity and look elsewhere.

Thoughts on such a scenario?

25

Brett,

I really don’t think you’re grasping the concept of seniority or more important your relationship with the company. EVERYTHING IS BASED ON SENIORITY AND NOTHING ELSE. NOT NEED, NOT DESIRE, NOT MERIT. There is no conversation to be had regarding bases and your CJO. When you start your class there will be a list of available slots and everyone in your class will bid on those slots based on their seniority within the class. If that means you’ll need to take 4 flights and commute coast to coast that’s YOUR problem and no one else’s. There is no discussion, conversation, I have a sick family member, there’s no one to pick up my kids or feed my cat. You could be the greatest pilot since Yeager or barely pass training, doesn’t matter. The answer to virtually every question for the entirety of your career will be SENIORITY and what it can hold.

As for a newhire “passing” you’re all very fortunate that during this pilot shortage you’ll have that opportunity. When (not if) it ends, they won’t have that luxury.

Adam

26

Brett-

I think Adam summed it up nicely. With thousands of pilots and thousands of flights, an airline is not going to care where you live or what your life circumstances are. All they want to know is are you going to be at the gate at your showtime to safely transport your passengers to their destination. If not, you could be a liability and will get to do the carpet dance with your chief pilot - and possibly terminated if it becomes a common occurrence.

I realize you are just gathering info right now. Lots of information on the internet you can read about a day in the life of an airline pilot.

-Scott

27

@Adam @scottman

A very good brass tacks truth display from you both, that is ultimately what I’m after. I’m a guy who lives in reality, so thank you both for the corroborative testament. Quite helpful. :+1:

28

@Adam

just to be crystal clear on the word “class” and its meaning…

“When you start your class there will be a list of available slots and everyone in your class will bid on those slots based on their seniority within the class”

“Class” means new hire class, correct? Not flight training class. Meaning that the bidding begins after you sign your offer letter. Let me know if I understanding this correctly.

29

Brett,

Your “class” means the group of people that you start training with on the first day you actually show up for work (training) at an airline. United starts 40 or so people at a time, that is their “class”, it does not matter when they signed a CJO, just the day you actually show up to work.

Chris

30

Thank you for the precision in your answer Chris, the granularity is helpful and much appreciated.
Sounds like the bidding for a domicile happens AFTER you become an employee officially. Day 1 or so.

From there, they ship you where they need you.

31

Brett,

Yes, that is correct. They will ship you where they need you, but you will be able to bid back to your desired base and will get it as soon as your seniority can hold it and there is an opening there.

Chris

32

Brett,

Where is it that you desire to be based?

Chris

33

@Chris …I’ll get laughed out of the room if I tell you. But here goes…San Diego. Where I currently reside (for now)

34

Brett,

Skywest is the only airline with a base there. Do you intend on making a career at Skywest or moving onto a major some day?

Chris

35

@Chris Yes sir, precisely. I can tell you’re already a great mentor Chris with prescriptive questions for us rookies, that is much appreciated.
You nailed it. The inception of my query was anchored into SkyWest because of that very reason. The SAN factor that belongs only to SkyWest. Your question is a good one, and I see two career paths that I think might taper nicely with where your question is headed.

What are the chances you and I could take this offline for a more 1:1 line of communication?

I could provide detailed context more easily that way and I’m inclined to think your counsel in particular would be beneficial to me. I think we’re thinking the same thing regarding those two columns of career path.

36

Brett,

While I appreciate your desire to speak privately, we prefer to keep all communication open on the forum so that others can learn from the discussion. Your questions about staying at a regional or going to a major are not unique to you and it is something that many pilots toy with. Please feel free to ask whatever questions you wish here.

Chris