I am curious for those that have experienced or witnessed if coming into ATP with PPL and 80 hours presents any amount of real learning curve, typically? For instructors, have you seen any significant issues for the typical PPL starter going into instrument as the student’s first experience with ATP? Or is the programmed designed well enough to allow for this change in information absorption level (Info via firehose!)
Is there much of a difference in success rate for zero to hero student vs starting with a freshly minted PPL?
Fun fact: for many years ATP only offered the program to students who already had their PPLs. They wanted to ensure students had at the very least the skill and ability to get to that level. Over the years, due to demand (and the frustration many students encountered earning their PPLs) ATP created a program for people with zero time.
The good news is a good number of ATPs students enter the program (myself included) with their PPLs and have no issues. What’s most important is to know you’ll be starting the next phase (Instrument training) immediately and it’s critical to be a solid PP (in both skills and knowledge) when you begin.
I had my PPL and right around eighty hours. It took name a few hours to adjust to doing things the ATP way, but it was not much of an adjustment at all. The program is designed for this and many of ATP’s students do exactly that.
I am not sure of the percentages of success rates, but both groups do well.
Keep in mind that when you go to an airline, you will need to adjust to their way of flying, and then again if you switch to a major airline. Thesis just part of the job,
If you can, try and get your PPL in the same or similar type aircraft as you will be training in at ATP (either Cessna or Archer). That way you know the aircraft and have the knowledge. The only adjustment will be the ATP way, scheduling, preparation, etc.
If you are already in to your training and anticipate a plane change, no big deal just try and spend some time reviewing the aircraft supplement book for the ATP trainer aircraft before you start. Primacy is a real learning obstacle. You’ll have to overcome that when transitioning to the new aircraft. However, it will be a common challenge you’ll face multiple times in your career so not a bad thing to learn the skill earlier than later!
Based on my experience as an instructor with ATP, the answer to this question depends on the quality of instruction you received for your PPL and how welcome you are to new rules and expectations. Whilst ATP is not a part 141 program, it is structured like one and there are some safety-focused guidelines that are perhaps more strict than other flight schools.
The first hurdle for most was the fact that when you come in with your PPL, your instructor is expecting to you to be at private pilot checkride standards (those who are in the zero experience program might have passed it the day prior!). You will jump right into instrument training and there is very little time to adjust to the aircraft and the ATP way of doing things. Keep in mind there are very few maneuvers and not many landings involved with instrument training, so it was not uncommon to have students struggle in these areas initially. Sometimes I found that they would get to the commercial stage and feel behind, compared to students who did their PPL at ATP. And this was just because they were doing the maneuvers according to the ATP supplement for the first time. With time spent on the ground reviewing the changes and chair flying (maybe even extra time in the simulator), it was not difficult to overcome these challenges. The quality of instruction during your PPL phase might also have an impact in these areas, but I found most were pretty solid.
I’m not sure about the success rate exactly, but I personally thought that the private stage was a really big first challenge. Success in the PPL phase was often a good indicator of potential further success in the program. Coming in with a PPL doesn’t necessarily mean you are more likely to be successful, but it shows that you have the capability to work hard and pass a checkride. Your likelihood of success is ultimately up to you!
As the others have mentioned, adjusting to new operations or aircraft is something you will need to be accustomed to as a professional pilot, so better to learn it early!
This is a fantastic question, and the answers will vary from each mentor and instructor (if inquired) as you already see. For myself, I came into ATP with Credit Private, meeting the criteria required on the ATP website and I would say there are some negative habits that you can learn from previous flight schools and instructors, but it is breakable. I trained in a C172 (Skyhawk) and transitioned into the PA-28 (Archer) when I attended ATP. The Laws of Learning are real and as you’ll learn (if you instruct), every student learns differently and at a different pace. In short summary I recommend being proficient not only in the flying aspect, but also checklist usage, along with accepting positive criticism and knowing that there will be adversity and how do you tackle it.
When you arrive Day 1 at ATP you will be expected to be a private pilot with ability of being able to fly at PVT standards listed under the PVT ACS. I like to recommend for those coming in to get a few refresher flights (whether you’ve flown recently or not) as it’s important to not have a gap in training. ATP trains around consistency and proficiency under their core values. When you enroll, ATP provides you with hundreds (if not more than a thousand) of resources at your fingertips. In the training supplement there’s an Oral Review in the aft section of the booklet, I would say if you can answer those questions Day 1, you’re on track. If you’re not able to answer those then you didn’t prepare enough (and we [instructors] understand there are other things on your to-do list so it’s important to time manage). This was something I learned quickly from being an active member on this forum prior to entering ATP. Following the recommendations on both ATP’s website and the forum (which contains thousands of credible experiences) can help direct you into the pathway of success.
Without being able to look at a CSV file or spreadsheet, or unless an admin can provide those specific details, it’s hard to say. I believe the success rate between all the variables is in the positive and when I graduated from ATP and completed my journey as a full-time instructor, the success rate at ATP was above the national average in 2022… Now you got me wanting to know these updated statistics because I love charts, analytics and outcomes.
Excellent, thank you sir. We’ve toured the Sacramento location twice now and my daughter has her admissions flight scheduled for this week. Expecting to start in March or so to give her time to get the requisite 78 hours and get all her writtens out of the way. She’s pretty excited/nervous about starting her career path at 18! Appreciate the feedback!
Thank you all for your feedback! After looking at “negative Nancy” posts on FB and other social media (just to see what they are complaining about) and touring the facility she is hoping to attend twice now, she’s even more confident that ATPs training style is what she is looking for! She’s very excited to attend in the spring now that we have had a chance to discuss the “negative Nancy” issues with real time students and CFIs and have walked away happy with her choice to attend ATP.
Glad to hear it! There will always be negative reviews out there because the program is not meant for everyone! However, if she is willing and able to put in the work that’s required to be successful she will be a grateful alumni before you know it.
I would strongly encourage your daughter to create a profile and join this forum. There is a lot to be learned on here from the mentors, as well as current and former students.
While it’s nice that you’re trying to get answers for your daughter, she should create her own forum profile and be involved in the conversations. One of the most important (and there’s many) tools in the toolbox is being able to research, find the answers, and then apply them to real world scenarios. As a pilot, we have thousands of resources at our fingertips if we cannot find an answer: publications, regulatory articles, manuals, etc. Your daughter may also be able to connect with a current or former student, finding answers to her own questions she may have not discussed with you.