So, originally I was planning on taking the zero time 7 month plan, but because I basically know I’m going to get deferred on the AME exam due to a distant past DUI, I’m more strongly considering working at obtaining a PPL at one of the local flight schools here.
I was just curious what, if any, consensus was on how people who obtained their PPL outside of ATP fared vs people who went with the 7 month program. Did they seem more or less prepared? Is there any ‘stigma’ so to say or preferential treatment for students who spent the whole time there?
Also I think no matter what I’m going to take a discovery flight + couple of lessons perhaps at a local school here to make sure I don’t go through all this hassle and stress to end up having motion sickness or just hating it. I’ve heard that getting started on logging hours right from the very beginning is a good idea; do I need to get a physical book or some kind of app to bring to the discovery flight? Thanks in advance
A couple of things. First you should def take a discovery or intro flight to see if this is really something you want to do. Everything else is moot until you do. You don’t need an app or paper logbook (yet). Just make sure to record the info for entry later.
Next, no matter where you get your PPL you’re going to need a medical. While getting a First Class is harder than getting a Third, you still should see how big an issue it is before you invest a whole lot of time and money getting your PPL. That would be my second step.
There is no stigma getting your PPL elsewhere. Many do, many don’t. Know that to get credit for your PPL for ATP training you will need at least 78hrs of flight time.
I would not do any flight training at all if you suspect a potential deferral is in your future from the FAA. I suggest getting that situation fully resolved, then starting flight training.
Reach out to a flight school and see about getting yourself an introductory flight. Flying in the back of a Boeing or Airbus is different than sitting up front manipulating the controls of a Piper or Cessna. It may take an intro flight or two, use this as an opportunity to get familiar with a location or school that you would feel comfortable attending to conduct training - if you attend ATP, you will spend the majority of your day at a training center.
I would hold off any training until you get your medical resolved, the last thing you want to do is start your training and then get into a rut because you can’t solo. You must have a medical certificate to solo and that is a requirement of hours to meet the private pilot license. Consult an AME first, to find an AME close to you, you can use this search tool - some have suggested not starting an application, but first meeting with them to get advice:
If you decide to outsource your private pilot license, you must have a minimum (like Adam said), a minimum of 78 hours with 8 being PIC XC to enroll Credit Private at ATP.
I have to agree with the other mentors here, you need to 1. Make sure you will be able to obtain a first class medical then 2. Take a few discovery flights.
Any other conversation about how to best attack flight training is mute until you get those two things sorted. Can I get a medical and do I even enjoy flying?
I dealt with the same situation with the distant past DUI. I took my medical exam in mid-July. My AME gave me a week after the exam to get the following info together before he would defer to the FAA:
Incident report from the day with BAC, likely the ticket from the traffic stop (if you refused to blow then it is automatically deferred)
any relevant court documents
Completion of any courses your state may have required
personal statement
personal references
I got him everything except the ticket with BAC in that week. I had a lot of trouble with the local court getting documents. He sent everything else in to the FAA. After 30 days I called the FAA office in OKC. I was told that there was really no timetable for when they may actually review my case and to check back weekly, pretty discouraged at this point. The next day I checked MedXpress and my 1st class med was approved, outrageously elated at this point. Now I am getting ready to start class on Oct. 10.
Getting all of the info together for your AME before you go is probably the best way to avoid going into the “FAA black hole” as my AME called it.
I don’t even know where to start with that. I’ve done a search via the official DPS record which has what I think are incident reports? Well, it shows the charges, BAC, conviction status, arrest date, etc.
As far as ‘completion of courses’ I mean I suppose I could find my probation documents that shows what I went through?
I found several HIMS AMEs nearby and one has specifically a ‘hour consultation of HIMS issues’ for like 350 that I think I’ll have to take before I actually try to get an exam, that way hopefully they should know exactly which channels I should go through to get the requisite info.
The PPL and PIC time requirements are there because those, combined with the time you’ll build in the other phases will enable you to satisfy the Commercial Pilot flight time requirements.
Yes if you start the program from zero you’ll build those during the PPL phase before the Instrument phase.
Thanks, I understand the logic but the ATP site could be clearer (not your fault). I found it eventually but only after doing a search of the ATP site using Google. It changes what I was thinking of doing which was doing my PPL at a flight school I can literally walk to from my house and then picking up at IFR with ATP. Now it doesn’t make sense, even if I complete PPL in a reasonable number of hours it still makes sense to start ATP at the 0 hours program.
Regardless while I appreciate the convenience of going across the street, I’m certain there’s a reason you’ve decided to do the bulk of your training with ATP (reputation, timeline, airline partnerships, success rate, etc etc). Your PPL is the foundation for all the training that follows. In my mind it makes sense to start off on the right foot and maintain that high level of training from Day One with ATP.
I would strongly encourage you not to do your PPL training with another school if you intend on doing the rest of your training with ATP. That local school will end up costing you much more than you might think and you will likely have to unlearn some rather bad habits. I did my PPL at a local school and really came to regret it. It took way longer than it should have and cost much more than I was quoted.
What’s stopping you from doing all your certificates and training with ATP - “Zero to Hero?” A couple of us have gone the PPL outsource and came into ATP Credit Private, as there are their pros and cons to obtaining the PPL outside like Chris mentioned.
The ATP curriculum is a finely crafted puzzle. Some very smart people figured out the most efficient way to get the hours you need for each rating. That means building a few extra hours during one phase so that you can meet the requirements for the next phase even quicker, aka “Two birds with one stone” thinking…
Now as the others have said, if you have no hesitations toward this career, get started in an airline career pilot program as soon as possible. The local school may say the right things and claim to get your private cheaper but I guarantee you it will come at a cost. Typically that cost is time… and time is money.
The original poster might have his medical deferred to the FAA.
That means the FAA wants more information before approving or denying your request for a medical.
It can take 6months to 2years and thousands of dollars for doctors/lawyers depending on your unique situation. And that doesn’t guarantee the medical being approved.
I have a similar question…
I had my PPL and was about 150 hours into flight training in college when 9/11 hit and the industry froze. I was too close to graduation to wait it out (with the furloughs, etc), so I switched to a business degree and fell away from aviation. Life happened… marriage, kids, etc… but my ONE regret in life is not continuing my dream to the airlines. My kids are 13 and 11 now and my husband is encouraging me to get back to it!
So… I do have my PPL, with about 150 hours, but it’s been 20ish years since I was actively flying (other than a few hours here and there in my uncle’s plane when I visit him).
Obviously I have work to do to get current. My uncle is a CFI (and 787 captain for American) and has a Cessna. Should I get current with him or just go back to the 0 hours program with ATP so I’m starting with their program/plane? The consideration for me is time as much as money. I’m eager to get going!
While your situation is similar, you actually have your PPL and the required time so no, I would not start from zero.
What you do need to know is that you will start day 1 with your Instrument training. That means you need to be not only current, but a competent PP in both skills and knowledge. If you can accomplish that, again I see no need not to start with credit for your PPL. I hadn’t flown in about 10yrs when I started. I did the same and was fine.
If you are bale to get fully current on your PPL, you should join the program, with credit for such. It might take a good 10-15 hours, but there is really no need for you to start all over. Make sure to hit the books super hard, the knowledge is the hard part.