I am currently an active duty Marine. I’ve been in for 3.5 years, but still have about 18 months left. I am wanting to follow my dream of becoming an airline pilot, and I’m obviously wanting Uncle Sam to help pay for it. But, I have unfortunately not found the BEST way to go about it. I currently have a “plan” to attend ATP’s accelerated airline pilot program, but I have read that the Post 9/11 GI Bill will only pay for about 13k (annual cap), and the Montgomery GI Bill will pay for about 60%.
My original plan was to use my GI Bill to pay for all my certifications with ATP, then pay for my own online college while I am a Flight Instructor. That plan doesn’t quite seem to be possible.
I am currently using Tuition Assistance to get some college credits (does not tap into my GI Bill).
I am trying to get all my Certifications done ASAP, that way I can begin my pilot career ASAP. That being said, I know the GI Bills will pay if I go to a school that also produces a Degree.
If anyone has any information, or advice, it would be much appreciated. Especially those who have been through similar situations.
Thanks in advance!
-David
David,
There are many threads on here that reference the GI Bill and I suggest you take a look. The bottomline is this, yes the govt will pay the bill if you go to a 4yr school but while you’re initially saving the cost of flight training you’re costing yourself many times that amount in future earning, seniority and all that come with it. Airline pilots have a very finite shelf-life and therefore the money you lose is unrecoverable. This is why so many people coming from the military chose to use the money for their degrees and opt for paying for the flight training themselves.
Again I recommend you read what others in your position have to say.
Adam
@Adam This is my first time posting and since the topic is related to this gentleman’s post, I’m going to piggy back off of it.
My situation is I’m a transitioning veteran and am 100% qualified for the Post 9/11 GI Bill, but I came into the military already with a bachelors degree. It seems to me that you’re a strong advocate of not wasting time on a 4 year school as you pointed out seniority is key and any time wasted could be a huge opportunity cost in the long run, so I imagine you would advise against going to a 4 year school using my Post 9/11 GI Bill just to save money? Since I already have a bachelors degree, I have the option to transfer some credits to a 4 year school which can reduce my study time but I’m not sure by how much. I am personally more inclined to do ATP at this point and just use the GI Bill’s annual cap.
Thanks in advance for your response.
Joel,
Captains at major airlines easily make $300k or more per year, not to mention that seniority affects everything from what aircraft one flies, right down to what trips they get and what days off they have.
You will not be able to use your GI Bill benefits for ATP, with the exception of examiner’s fees, which range around the $6k mark.
Chris
Joel,
Totally your call but as Chris said Capts at Major airlines make over $300k. At ATP you could start your career in just over 2yrs. If you get your Bachelors you’re looking at 5. Airline pilots have a finite amount of years they can work. Those 3 extra years will not only cost you close to a million in lost wages, if you factor in retirement and quality of life etc, it makes the cost of training negligible. That’s my take.
Adam
@Chris Sorry I’m still new to this, besides examiner’s fees, I read on ATP’s website that " ATP’s Type Rating, ATP Certification Training and Aircraft Dispatcher Training Programs in Texas are approved to train veterans under the GI Bill." Can you shed some light on that as well?
Joel,
No problem at all, answering questions is what we are here for.
The Airbus 320 type rating program is a certification to fly an Airbus 320, you should not ever need this program as airlines provide such training for you. The ATP certification will be provided by the regional you get hired at and there is no need for you to have a dispatcher’s license. That being said, those programs are all conducted under FAR part 141 training, which makes them eligible for GI benefits. ATP’s career pilot program is conducted under part 61 as it allows flexibility that part 141 does not. If ATP offered training under part 141, it would take significantly longer and cost more. As the program is part 61, it is not eligible for GI benefits, the exception being examiner’s fees.
There are programs that flight train under part 141, but they will cost you significantly more and take much longer because of the yearly cap on using GI benefits
I am no expert on GI benefits, but I believe they can be passed onto your children.
Chris
@Chris GI Bill can only passed onto your children or spouse if I have ones lol and only if I have served 6 years which I haven’t. But no worries, I can always use it to get my MBA later on down the road once my aviation career takes off.
Your answer however definitely helped me understand the difference between PART 141 and 61 much better. What’s the easiest way to tell whether a program is conducted under part 141 or 61? I guess what you gain from reduction in training time doing part 61 eventually evens out or even outweighs the reduction in cost by being able to use your GI bill benefits?
Joel,
A part 141 program is like any other government run program, it is full of unnecessary red tape, takes much longer than it should and is beyond complex. I did my private at a part 141 school, it took much longer than it should have and cost far more than was advertised.
The best way to find out what kind of program a school offers is to just ask.
Chris
Lots of good info in this thread and every situation is unique. I’m preparing to separate from active duty and use my GI Bill for flight school as well. I found a school (Tarrant County College) in Fort Worth, TX that works through US Aviation Academy in Denton to get you from zero to CFI in two years. From there, US Aviation Academy typically offers CFI jobs to graduates as a way to build hours and get the experience. Now, this almost feels like a “all the stars align” scenario, but what is y’all’s take on that path?
The Post 9/11 GI Bill will cover all of flight school IF it is through a school that offers a if as a degree (more bang for your buck versus vocational flight school). So, two years to be a CFI and then build up hours as a CFI for another year or so before a regional would hire you. It does take time, but when you have to have 1,500 hours to be a first officer then there doesn’t seem to be much you can do.
Mark,
I remember having the same feeling of, “is this too good to be true?” CFI jobs offered post graduation is all too common though. Just to clarify, your GI bill will cover both your tuition and flight training? Or just tuition?
Tory
Yes. Everything I’ve found from the VA website, education office at my base and from the school’s site points to covering both. Since it’s from an accredited college and considered a “degree program,” it gets more from the Post 9/11 than if I just walked into a flight school that’s not affiliated with a public college/university and started flying. I already have a bachelors, so I wouldn’t have to worry about anything aside from flight courses.
MArk,
I’m not familiar with that school or their program. My only question is that this topic has come up frequently and I’ve heard that even with a degree program the GI Bill has a yearly cap that often will not cover the expense of flight training? I’m not certain what that cap is but I’d make certain you’re covered.
Adam
I know it’s proably been said before but if a captain at a major is making 300k is it safe to assume that a FO with say at least 5 years in seniority is making close to 200k?
And best of luck to the OP on GI bill info. Like others have said it seems like there is a lot of red tape since the VA changed it stance a few years back regarding flight training and the GI BILL.
Anthony take a look at Airlinepilotcentral.com they have pay listed and you could see what major FO at what year and on what equipment makes. From what I hear it’s pretty accurate
Mark it may be too late for you as you’re getting ready to separate but AOPA made a mention last month that the VA was looking to expand GI Benefits with a trial program outside of the required accredited university. Not sure how it’s going with the trial and if they plan to end it or move forward with it but I’m a fan of them trying anything for you guys to increase your knowledge and opportunities to enter the civilian world with very little transition without barriers.
Anthony,
I routinely broke $200k as a First Officer, but I worked really hard to do that.
Chris
True, there is an annual limit. This is from the VA Website regarding FT:
Payment Amounts Under the Post-9/11 GI Bill. Payments for flight training vary based on which type of flight training course and what kind of school you are enrolled in:
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If you are enrolled in a degree program that consists of flight training at a public institution of higher education you can be reimbursed up to the public school in-state cost of the training and receive a monthly housing allowance and books-and-supplies stipend.
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If you are enrolled in a degree program that consists of flight training at a private institution of higher education, you can be reimbursed up to the full cost of the training or the national maximum (currently $19,198.31) per academic year, whichever is less. You may also receive a monthly housing allowance and books-and-supplies stipend. See if your school participates in the Yellow Ribbon Program, which may apply for those enrolled in degree programs.
I also know that veterans can also qualify for gov’t financial aid (not to be confused with student loans) while using the GI Bill since the GI Bill is not considered financial aid.
Mark,
I seriously contemplated the TCC program and using my GI bill but then i did the timeline math and for me the seniority gained via the ATP route was worth the financial risk. Seniority is everything as the mentors say.
i.e. Say you enroll at TCC for the fall (Aug) and I enroll at ATP in the fall too. Their program is a 2 year program to get your CFII. ATP’s is 9 months (no including weather delays) until CFII complete. You’d start building your 1500 hours in May21. I’d start building hours in April20. I’d hopefully be well over the 1000 hour mark by the time you begin building hours and would probably start at a regional later in 2021. You fly your butt off 100 hours a month instructing and you’d reach your 1500 mark in Aug22. So as you can math, thats already a year of seniority lost.
Also, I was pretty weary of the VA “math”. Regardless of which GI bill used I understood the maximum amount per school year applied for flight training is capped and in fact wouldn’t fully cover the total cost of flight training but would cover a huge chunk. The fact that there isn’t a concise path/route/best practice from the VA on this also speaks volumes. This is a very popular program yet everyone I’ve talked to has a different story.
Hit up the TCC VA rep for the best picture of how it works there. If anything ATP Arlington is nice. Laid back, lots of self study but lots of group study also since it’s a bigger location so you’ll have a few peers on or close to your timeline. A little weathery this past spring into early summer but lots of aircraft/instructors/availability that got me back on schedule.
-RK