I am a 17 year old going into my last year of high school with a great interest in aviation. I’ve spent the last several years dreaming about the life and what I can do to better secure my chances of becoming a pilot. I am an avid flight summer, with over 200 hours in realistic scenarios on VATSIM. My current plan is to attend a 4 year university, one like embry riddle or UND. But after researching programs like ATP, it sounds more reasonable and attainable, both financially and in actuality. My fear is that if I choose to not get a degree, I won’t seem a prospect candidate for legacy airlines such as Delta and United, later in my future. I also worry, with the recent rate of technological advancements, pilots may not be needed in 10-20 years, which would effectively leave me jobless.
What are your thoughts on this topic. All opinions are greatly appreciated.
Welcome to the forum. I will be honest, none of us here are fans of four year aviation schools. Those aviation programs tend to be incredibly expensive, time consuming, and not provide the student with any knowledge outside of aviation. What I recommend is that you obtain a degree in something besides aviation, then go to a place with an accelerated flight training option, such as ATP. Another approach you could take is to go to flight school, get your ratings, build your flight time and get hired on at a regional, and then go to an online college to complete your degree. The legacy major airlines are going to want to see a four year degree,
I am not remotely worried about automation replacing my job. Railroads have not even figured out how to automate trains and they operate in one dimension. The threshold for automating an airplane is so high and even if it could be done, I do not see the public accepting it. When Newark Airport actually gets the Air Train to function properly, I will start to worry.
As Chris said, none of us are fans of aviation universities. In addition to the cost, they offer no backup should aviation not work out for you. While I appreciate your enthusiasm for flying, with all due respect, having 200hrs in on VATSIM in no way means you’ll be successful as a pilot.
Your fear that without a 4yr degree you won’t be a good candidate for a Legacy is valid. They want one but fortunately they don’t care what the field of study is. This can give you the opportunity to save some money and have a backup. You can also go the online route after you’ve done your training. In that case you’d already have your licenses, and having a backup will be less of a concern. Regardless, I do recommend you completing your education first.
As for the automation we still have a long way to go. Further, even after it’s perfected, it’s not like every airline will just dump all their planes that require pilots. There are still planes with conventional instruments and no autoland flying even though the new technology has been available for decades.
Thank you Chris and Adam for your wonderful analysis of my question. My goal is to reach the airlines as fast as possible, while also appearing as a prime candidate. College then a flight school would take 6 plus years, and so will flight school then college. The main reason I want to attend a 4 year school that has a program to obtain you licenses is to knock them both out simultaneously. Additionally, can someone please explain the importance of having a degree in the first place. I am now seeing most airlines, even some legacies, drop that requirement. Again I appreciate any thoughts on the topic.
As for obtaining a degree in something other than aviation, I somewhat agree. If for some reason, I am not able to become a commercial pilot, I still want to stay in the industry. I am currently planning on getting a degree in Aeronautical engineering, which would serve as an excellent backup, and would still allow me to get my licenses while in college. If all else fails, another one of my backups is to become an air traffic controller because I thoroughly enjoyed my time training to become one in vatsim (which I’m well aware is not going to reflect on my performance in the future in any way). Does this sound like a solid plan or do you recommend I do something else? Again thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and practically everyone else’s on this forum. Best regards!
You can study whatever you like but again know, even if you remain in the industry, there are few jobs that require an aviation degree.
As for being competitive no Major airlines formally require a 4yr degree. The reason for this is because if the CEOs nephew wants to be a pilot and doesn’t have a degree, he can get him hired and no one will kick up a fuss. For the rest of us you stated it well, you want to be competitive and that means a degree. Is it possible to get hired without one? Sure but as soon as you check the NO box on your application next to the question “do you have a 4yr degree?” your application immediately gets put on the bottom.
Now while I always recommend school first, the fastest route is actually training, build time, get hired at a Regional and then complete your degree online with credit for your licenses and ratings. This however requires a considerable amount of discipline.
Let’s be clear on the degree front. A degree is not required for the regional airlines and for many of the smaller majors like Frontier, etc. The legacy majors all require a degree, even if they do not explicitly state so. The reason we often recommend flight school, then college is that it would allow you to attend online college while working as a pilot, thus reducing the time you are out of the job market from six years to nine months. One just needs to make sure that they will have the dedication to return and finish the degree at some point. Also, keep in mind that many schools will give credits for flight training, thus further reducing your time to finish the degree.
The purpose of the degree is to show the airlines that you can be dedicated to something for four years and actually finish it. The legacies all pay their captains $300k or more per year, they want somebody that can show dedication and also represent their company well, a degree helps ensure that.
Thank you again to Chris and Adam for your insightful advice. Do airlines consider all degrees the same? Ex: a degree done online for an average school compared to a prestigious one from Embry Riddle. As for now, I plan to attend a school like embry riddle or UND and get a degree in aeronautical engineering while getting my licenses. Although it’s an expensive option, I believe it is the least time consuming in achieving my goal of flying commercially and obtaining a degree, besides attending an online school for a degree. Like Adam stated, the level of discipline required to go back to online school after becoming a regional pilot is extreme. I would rather want to complete my education first, before all else. The way I see it, these aviation universities are the only way to get a degree and your licenses at the same time. Again thanks for all the help and best of luck to both of you!
One last thing I forgot to add was the benefit of qualifying for a R-ATP which would even further speed up the process of getting hired. 500 hours is a lot of flight time and can take more than 6 months to obtain.
Nolawi,
It seems you have your mind made up but I’ll still add my two cents. Yes, the aviation university degree programs seem like the fastest route, getting your degree and licenses knocked out at the same time plus qualifying you for R-ATP. You’re not wrong, but you’ll pay a pretty penny for it. Way more than ATP and an online degree. Plus you won’t have any backup career in case of furloughs.
The most efficient path both financially and time wise…go to community college right now straight out of high school. You’re young, learn good study habits and getting a good GPA, then attend ATP with your associates degree. You’ll have two more years of maturity and college experience, be well prepared for the rigors of ATP and have saved quite a bit of money. Then once you’re at the regionals, take that associates and finish the necessary remaining classes for your bachelors in a major that creates a backup plan. You’d be at the majors in 4 years, 22 years old and did it pretty frugally.
If you want to complete all your school before starting, that’s not a bad plan either. Go to a 4 year university, maybe get in-state tuition and just fly for fun if you want to. Then when you’re all done and graduated, start at ATP. You’d still be younger than most hitting the regionals 6 years from now, at 24.
-Hannah
Again it’s definitely not the fastest route but as Hannah said it seems you’ve made up your mind. While I don’t believe it’s the worth the expense, there’s no question Riddle is a fine school.
And just know if you do make it to the airlines you will be referred to as a “Riddle Kid”
After careful consideration of all the points and arguments made above, as well as reading several threads on this website, I now believe the best course of action is to attend a community college for 2 years, obtain my associates degree, then to attend an accelerated flight school program such as ATP, then finish my bachelor’s degree with an online college that accepts flight training credits after being hired by a regional. This would, as Hannah stated, help develop good study habits, and as Adam stated, lessen the amount of discipline needed to finish 4 years of school online, and instead finish less than 2 years of school online. Again, I’d like to thank each and every one of you for taking the time to respond to my questions. The advice you give is helpful in more ways than you can imagine; and not just on this thread.
P.S : Can someone please elaborate on if airlines give more validity to degrees from schools such as Riddle compared to online universities? I would hate to think I would be considered lesser than those who had the money and time to attend such prestigious schools. Also, I know I am still about a year out from making this life changing decision but are any of you aware of online schools that accept flight training as credits.
That’s a good plan. The degree can be in anything and from any reputable institution. Preference in field of study or name of college is never used in favor for or against an applicant. I know it seems counter intuitive, but it’s true.
Airlines prefer degrees from reputable schools. Yes, Riddle is a fine school, but it will most likely not be regarded any higher than a state school, or many online schools. If I was looking for an online school, I would look for one that also has a physical, brick and mortar campus somewhere.
As a point of reference, all of the mentors on here have college degrees, none of us went to Riddle. I know very few airline pilots that did go to Riddle, it seems to me that most went to
state schools.
I participated in hiring at both my airlines and I can promise you having a Riddle degree will not help you (or hurt you) in the hiring process. Now we all have our own preferences so if there’s a Riddle guy on your panel you may get to use the secret handshake but if there isn’t they’re probably thinking your parents have too much money. Either way it’s a wash.
As long as all accredited universities are considered the same, I am more than happy to NOT take a 200k loan, and that is with scholarships and financial aid already considered (I’ve maintained a 3.85 gpa throughout highschool). As for picking an online school to finish my bachelors degree, I am going to worry about that when the time comes. Thank you for all your help and I wish you all a wonderful week.
Let us know if you have any other questions or concerns.