So my question is simple, is it worth $50,000 of debt to get my licenses? Any responses are appreciated!
Adam,
You should be concerned by the number of offenses but no they won’t see it as a pattern of negligence. This is a pattern of very poor behavior which is still going on. What’s more concerning to me is your explanations. Let’s recap:
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I got in trouble but no one else did so that’s not fair.
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Everybody was doing it.
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There was no one around so it shouldn’t count.
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I was drunk at a bar and didn’t simply leave when asked so they blew it out of proportion.
Then of course there’s 5 traffic violations which yes the airlines care very much about. You can forget the whole “dropped and sealed”, it’ll all show up on a federal background check. I hear no indication of remorse or any acceptance of responsibility (hence your desire to call it negligence). Honestly if this were just a few short years ago I would’ve said without hesitation you have a ZERO chance of ever flying. Unfortunately there’s a pilot shortage at the Regionals and all kinds of people that would’ve never had a chance to get near a cockpit now are. If I were you I’d contact a few Regionals and see what they say, but I’d be less than optimistic. I’d forget about the Majors. It’ll really come down to who’s on your hiring panel. I’ve participated in hiring at both my airlines and if you get someone like me it’ll be a very short interview. Your call if it’s worth a trying or not?
Adam
Adam,
Obviously I don’t know you and I’m certain there’s much more to you than a few paragraphs on a page. You’ve earned a degree and you’re serving your country which I admire greatly. Problem is this, neither the airlines nor the FAA like criminal records PARTICULARY if there’s any hint if alcohol or substance abuse. Airlines are highly scrutinized by the public. While accidents and incidents are rare, when they do occur the NTSB comes in and EVERYTHING is investigated and released to the public. Should it be revealed that one of the pilots has an fairly extensive history of bad behavior the public will want to know why the airline put passengers lives in the hands of someone who clearly has issues following the rules and obeying the law.
Next the typical airline panel (which is what generally makes or breaks most applicants, the rest are really box checks, chart review, aptitude, systems etc) lasts maybe 20min. Within that brief time we need to ascertain who you are. Before you walk through the door we’ve got your application and yours frankly is already going to put me in a bad mood. First off contrary to what many seem to believe, not everyone gets into trouble and the vast majority of applicants have clean records. Those who don’t it’s usually a matter of an offense or maybe 2 when they were young (often minors or before they’re 20). That’s not the case here. While it started a while ago it’s continued well into your 20’s.
So let’s play airline interview. “Adam, you claim to be of high moral character and an ideal candidate but I’m looking at a VERY long and extensive record of bad, responsible and reckless behavior that’s continued well into your adulthood and discredits that claim. Your driving record alone gives me pause. Following the rules and standard behavior is essential to being an airline pilot, something you seem to have a problem with. SO why should we at ABC Airline trust you with our $50mil airplane and more importantly the lives of our passengers and crews?”
Adam
Adam,
There is a lot going on in this thread, but I will try to tackle it.
With your extensive criminal record, much of it involving alcohol, I strongly suspect that you will never be an airline pilot. Even if you completely change things around and never get even another speeding ticket, you will still be going up against thousands of candidates with perfectly clean records. Even with the shortage, I do not see you having a realistic shot at the airlines. But don’t take my word for it, go apply for a first class medical and see if you can even obtain one, then call the recruiting departments of several regional airlines and see what they say.
A much bigger problem is your attitude on all of this. You say you are remorseful, and I believe you, but you have a string of excuses to validate your behavior. I am glad that you have interviewed for OCS school, but it is not the same as a position at a major airline.
Yes, Adam and I have leveled harsh criticism of people who have used illegal drugs in the past. We do this because the airline industry levels harsh criticism of such. I know somebody who wanted to be a flight attendant at a regional airline, they would not even look at her application because she had a marijuana possession charge from five years ago. If an airline wouldn’t hire somebody like this to be an FA, there is no way that they would hire a pilot with a similar background. Yes, the public’s perception of marijuana is changing, but the FAA’s is not and anybody who wants to be a pilot should be staying very far away from illegal drugs.
Adam and I do not irrational judge people, who tell the truth as the airline industry sees it. If you want to find a flight school that will take your money and tell you that everything will be okay, I am sure you can find that, but here you will find truthful answers.
Chris
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Adam,
First, while I most certainly have an ego (I’m an airline pilot, we ALL have egos!) my “high activity” on this forum is due solely to the fact that this is ATPs website (see the logo up and to the left), I am a successful former student, instructor and now Capt at a Major airline and was asked by ATP to participate on this forum as a mentor which is what I do.
As for the rest I tried to give you an honest answer to your question based on my experience on the subject. As I said in my response before your rant about my “narcissism” and my “ability to make objective moral assumptions”, despite the ease of getting into trouble these days the VAST majority of pilot applicants do not have criminal backgrounds (and no, other than a couple of speeders when I was 18, I did none of the above. Although I may have urinated outside when I was 5?). You then want to discuss society’s view of alcohol vs marijuana and in truth I agree with you but you completely miss the point. This is about your ability to follow the rules, period. If the government declared pink lemonade to be an illegal substance then as a pilot you’re not allowed to drink it. Going back to our mock interview by defending marijuana you beg the very common interview question “so if the company had a rule or policy that you disagree with would you follow it?”.
I appreciate your desire for me to do some self-reflection but honestly I’m good thank you. While I may not be very fair or objective , I am very good at getting applicants to “tip their hand”. By asking you a very basic and incredibly obvious interview question (based on YOUR statements) your response was to attack me and rationalize your behavior (btw, I NEVER claimed to be objective, far from it, do you honestly believe that every single person you’ll meet during an interview will be unbiased and completely objective? Do you think you’ll be interviewed by the Dalai Lama?). As I said, it would be a VERY short interview.
Peace out.
Adam
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AJ,
Occasionally we all fall into the trap of confusing the philosophical with the actual, especially when it is personal. The mentors purpose on this forum is to try to help us with the way things are as opposed to the way we want them to be at the airline level. Taking offense because someone tries to show what is vs. what you want is pointless. We can argue morals all day but in the end you asked for the mentors opinion and received it.
Apologies Chris - I did not think I crossed a line with that. TY
no worries 