I’m going to start this post with a disclaimer, actually two: First I do not want nor is it my intent to bring the national vaccine debate to this forum (and if anyone tries your response will be deleted). Second I’m not trying to frighten or scare anyone off this industry. While we generally try and be positive, I feel it’s important to provide a much information as possible and feel I’d be remiss if I didn’t at least post what’s been a major focal point of my airline the last few months.
This week approximately 40 of our pilots will either be terminated or placed on unpaid leaves for a year. The reason they’re being disciplined is because they’ve refused to be vaccinated. Some of these pilots have been at this airline longer than many of you have been alive. They worked hard, kept themselves fit to maintain their medicals, haven’t suffered any accidents or incidents but all will still find themselves out on the street. No one ever saw this coming. Unlike virtually every other job in the country, pilots cannot move laterally. There is no national seniority list and if any want to get hired elsewhere they will be starting at the very bottom.
Again the point of my thread is not to dissuade or scare anyone away from this industry I love so much. It’s simply to impress upon you all (particularly those of you that are younger), while you may be 100% certain you don’t want to do anything else ever and are more than willing to put all your eggs in one basket, you never know what circumstances might arise we’re you’ll find yourself needing to do something else. I’m a union rep and I’ve spoken to every one of the pilots in jeopardy. Those with a backup plan (ie, side gig or business based on their degree) while not happy, will be fine. Those who aren’t, will not be and are straight up terrified.
The only safety net this job comes with is the one you create for yourself. Just something to keep in mind.
Great points and an excellent way to manage expectations for those joining us. Particularly, the younger coming to this career field need to understand that there are many uncontrollable variables, including politics, economy, industry, health, etc.
Like you said, it is not to scare anyone but to make some realities very clear. I would like to add that everyone should be prepared for those variables and realities. A back up plan is a must. Failure to prepare is preparing to fail. I hope that makes sense!
I also ask anyone in aviation to read the book, Hard Landing, by Petzinger. It should be a mandatory reading at any level in aviation.
I’ve been furloughed twice, once in 2018 when Great Lakes shut down, and again during Covid. The second furlough made me finally admit this industry has the potential to be rather volatile during my career and made me look for a “side hustle”. When flying is going great my side hustle is just “gravy on the biscuit” as Dave Ramsey would say. If it happens again and I get furloughed a third time the side hustle will keep a roof over my family’s head and food in their belly. I couldn’t agree more with you.
@Adam specifically I remember seeing this thread a while back and hearing you speak about your work in the union.
Echo your original point about not being interested in a debate. Now 2+ years on, I think it’s safe to say a person’s mind is made up on vaccine mandates one way or the other.
6 months after your original post-what is the state of this issue with the airlines? Specifically for new hires?
Is the Covid shot a requirement for employment? Have airlines continued to require it or have mandates been lifted?
Is the pilot shortage so bad that airlines can’t afford to lose any more pilots? Or are they sticking with their commitment and rules are rules?
Side question. With the shortage being so bad. Those airlines that fired pilots who would not get the shot or who had pilots decide to leave. Would you see it as any easy fix to ask them to come back?(assuming the airline has eased their requirements)
It is (and was) really a mixed bag for the airlines. It’s my understanding some still require vaccination for newhires and some don’t. Some of those with mandates did and will offer exemptions. I believe the Regionals are practicing “don’t ask don’t tell”. To my knowledge there’s only one airline that still won’t allow the unvaccinated to return.
Shortage or not, airlines that fly internationally have a problem as many countries still require a vaccine for entry so they do it just to simplify scheduling.
Honestly since I resigned my position I’m somewhat out of the loop.
Honestly it was no one reason and there was no last straw etc. The pandemic was a very challenging time and the union, company and pilot group had to navigate furloughs, early retirements, vaccine mandates, safety protocols, etc etc etc. It was really alot to deal with and incredibly stressful. I had completed my term and was actually reelected for a second term when I had this epiphany. I have the greatest job on Earth that pays me ridiculously well, affords me lots of time off and provides zero stress. But for some reason (call me a masochist) I’m volunteering for this other gig that takes up almost ALL my spare time and causes me constant and huge amounts of stress. This is just plain stupid so I resigned.
While I enjoyed my service and believe I did some good work it was time to pass the torch. That and it was only a matter of time before I killed someone
Please do not kill anybody. They only give you twenty minutes per day of computer time in jail and that is simply not enough time to answer questions on this forum. Plus, being a “former airline pilot, now in jail” will not look good in your bio.
I appreciate your concern but as I said I’ve resigned so we’re all good
That does beg a question though? I’ve been reading this forum, lots of great info but I couldn’t find the answer to my question. Let’s say I did kill a few people (not my fault, they made me do it) and I was fired by my airline because they have some unfair policy about convicted felons working (I think it’s an HR thing?). Does it pay for me to behave and try and get out early? Will my airline hire me back? If not will a Regional? How about corporate flying or cargo? Will I be too old? Chris can you message me privately so I can confess to you privately? I need to know my options?
I apologize if this has been asked before. You guys are awesome!
I recommend checking out the FAQ section as there is a ton of good information there.
Everybody’s situation is different, but I can tell you that the major airlines do take a dim view of murder, particularly if it is premeditated. Furthermore, you might have a difficult time obtaining a medical certificate from the FAA as they require pilots to be “of good moral character”.
The good news is that the regionals are hiring like crazy, so you might very well have a chance there and could hopefully flow through to a major under the radar.
I would suggest that you complete a four year degree, as the majors do have a preference for those. In addition to this, I would recommend calling the recruiting departments of several regionals directly and asking them about your record.
If you are able to overcome this obstacle and get a medical, we recommend completing your writtens before starting the program.
Do I really need a degree? I owned a pizzeria for 10yrs and believe that would serve as the equivalent of an MBA. Also do I need an aviation degree and can I complete all my training online as getting to an airport while I’m incarcerated could be challenging? I was actually thinking about a law degree so I could work on getting my murders “expunged” and that way neither the airlines nor the FAA will ever know about them. Also why would I need to go to a Regional? I plan on spending as much time as possible on MSFS while in prison and figure I should be able to build all my time that way to meet the mins of any Major.
Again I appreciate your advice but I have to be honest, I heard there’s a guy in Attica who can get me all my license for 4 packs of Marlboro.
Edward sir I don’t know what this sarcasm or PC is you speak of. Further I don’t appreciate you seeing any humor in my very difficult situation. I’m going to suggest to Chris you be banned from further posting until you spend some time reflecting on the harm you’ve done to my fragility.
