Everyone on here seems to be pretty adamant that you need a “fall back” option. While I understand why this is important if things were to not work out, I guess I am failing to see how things would just “not work out”. Why would I need a fall back option? Is there a high risk that you’ll get fired or laid off?
Adam,
My first question is do you have any flight experience? If the answer is no then my answer is simple, what makes you think you can be a pilot? While flying isn’t rocket science, brain surgery or bomb defusing, it doesn’t require a certain level of intelligence, coordination and level headedness. Despite that many of us were told from a young age we can be ANYTHING we want, the fact is that’s simply not true. Don’t take this personally but you could simply be a lousy pilot. Bust a few checkrides and your career prospects go down dramatically. Do something stupid in your spare time (DUI, etc) or have an accident or incident, again odds go down. Finally make you just have an abrasive personality. Once you build your time and meet the hiring mins the interview simply becomes a matter of is this someone we want to be locked in a cockpit with. If the answer is no you’ve got a problem.
Finally if none of the above ever happens, all it takes is one bad visit to the Dr when they discover you have some unpreviously diagnosed disqualifying condition and you’re done.
While this is a great career with tremendous rewards, having a backup is a really good idea.
Adam
Sure, there’s certainly the possibility of any of those things happening, but that’s a lot of if’s. The more I think about it, I do think it would be wise to give myself some time to gain experience, make money, and test the waters, so what would be your suggestion for me who will graduate a little over a year from now? Should I try to get an associates degree while getting a ppl through mom and pop? Or should I get a bachelors and then enroll at ATP with no license? What would be the best combo of these different options?
Adam,
I was going along happily through my career when the eye doctor discovered a small retinal tear in my left eye. I was immediately grounded for several months. Had that tear been worse, or been a full separation, I could have been done flying forever. Hence the need for a fallback plan. Medical issues, furloughs, etc can cause people to have to re-evaluate their careers.
As for the best path, that is up to you. I would recommend at least two years of college, then you could go to ATP and do your ratings there, then continue on with your education later. Many colleges will give credits for flight training.
Chris
Adam,
Not to be mean, but you didn’t respond to Adam’s question that I quoted above. This is a question you have to be able to answer to yourself. You’re focused primarily on secondary education, but if you haven’t had the opportunity to experience an introductory flight, how do you know you like flying?
Having a secondary education isn’t just to help give you ‘brownie’ points in today’s time when applying for jobs, it’s a great avenue if something aviation falls through. A few years ago, we had this pandemic hit the world and many pilots were furloughed, some got very ill and couldn’t fly, many had to find other jobs or resort to their backup plan. If something happened again like that and you had a backup plan, you could resort to your backup plan.
I think getting your foot in the door with your Associates is a good idea, if you think you will be able to fly and continue your education to get your Bachelors during your instructing/regional year(s). Ultimately I think the question of whether you can fly and study is on yourself, we don’t know your study habits or grades, only you do.
Brady
Adam,
I don’t want to sound harsh but if you don’t think you need a back up plan, then you really aren’t educated enough in this industry yet. Talk to any older pilot in the terminal and I bet they’ll tell you a furlough story of the course of their career. If not a furlough, a medical incident, recreation accident, or some other event that separated them from flying for a time.
When things are good, they’re good. But when it’s bad, pilots get furlough notices and are unemployed for years. Those with backup plans go back to doing that job, until they get called back to fly. Those that don’t, well they probably end up on someone’s couch. It’s not a matter of if, it’s when the next downturn happens. Everything is out of your control, the best and smartest thing you can do is always prepare for when it comes.
Hannah
Chris,
Thank you for taking the time to reply. I apprecaite the experience you have shared with me as it shows how easy it is for things to fall through at some point.
Adam
Brady,
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I did not respond to his question because it seemed to be a rhetorical question to me. I have not flown yet, and much of what I am asking about is dependant on my experience during a discovery flight. I figured, however, that it would be wise to learn as much as possible as often as I can and not waste time waiting until a discovery flight to start asking questions.
Adam
Hannah,
Thank you for taking the time to reply. It’s not that I didn’t think I needed a backup plan, I simply was asking for the sake of getting some reasons that I may need one. I understand that it is always a better idea to have a backup plan than to not have one, however, I just wasn’t sure on some of the things that could go wrong with being a pilot. Thanks to the answers I have received, I now understand.
Adam
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All,
How does this sound as a plan? Graduate high school, begin pursuing an online associates degree. At the same time, pursue completing online ground school. Finish ground school and begin flight training to attain my PPL. Finish two years of college, and at some point along the way, attain my PPL. Enroll in ATP with my PPL (hopefully saving a little time and money invested in the course), and finish the course to become a CFI. Begin flight instructing, while going back to online college to attain my bachelor’s degree (do credits transfer at this point in time?). Finish my 1500 hours in the next 2 years, while also finishing my bachelor’s over the next two years. Apply at regional airlines having graduated ATP and attained a bachelor’s degree, and I am 22 years old.
Adam
Adam,
I am going to propose a modified version of your plan.
- Graduate high school
- Go to an actual, in person college and get an associates degree.
- Start and complete ATP’s program
- Instruct to get to 1,500 hours.
- Get hired at a regional or low cost major
- Work on your degree online while you are building your airline hours.
I personally think that getting your PPL outside of ATP is a bad idea. I did exactly this, it took much longer than it should have and cost much more than I was quoted. Then I got to ATP and had to unlearn all of the bad habits I had picked up at this local school. I know you want to fly, but stay focused and work on one thing at a time.
Chris
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Chris,
Thanks for the insight. Why would you recommend in-person college? Honestly, I’m looking to save as much money as I can during this process. Secondly, I had considered doing PPL outside of ATP only so I could get some experience flying before committing 95K to something I have oonly experienced during a Discovery flight. Do you have any suggestions as to how I could gain experience?
Adam
Adam,
I recommend in person college because I feel like you will learn more that way. It isn’t just about checking the box, it is about getting an education.
If you are not sure about flying as a career, then a PPL outside of ATP might make sense. At the very least I would recommend taking several flight lessons to test the waters.
Chris
Adam,
The online college thing is good to finish up a degree while working at a regional. But at your age, getting at least 2 years of in person college experience is highly recommended. You’ll get more out of the experience and help prepare you for the rigors of the ACPP.
Getting your PPL outside of ATP won’t necessarily save you any money and can end up costing more in the long run. If you’re unsure about this career, take a few more discovery flights over the next couple years while finishing up high school and college. Research the career and participate here on the forum so you can truly make an informed decision. If you’re still unsure, you can start by doing your PPL elsewhere but it comes with extra risks. The Private license is the foundation of your flying skills. Primacy is huge and if taught bad habits from the start, that can come back to bite you. Also, local schools typically aren’t budgeted and on fixed timelines so be careful they don’t string you along and make a private license twice as long and expensive as it should be.
Hannah
Adam
I took my first flight lesson with ATP in October 2015 and now fly professionally for a Major carrier and have a job offer for a Legacy carrier that I am beyond excited about.
I experienced my first furlough in 2018 when Great Lakes Airlines shut its doors. Suddenly I found myself married, two young kids at home and no job. Thankfully I was able to temporarily go back to work as a police officer to make ends meet until I found my next job. A few years later, my wife and I had just built our “dream house” on an acre of land and a little pandemic happened and once again I was furloughed and without a job. Again, thanks to people still feeling the need to break the law I was able to again “fall back” on being a police officer so we didn’t lose our house. I was even applying to places like Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. to stock shelves overnight.
Now a days I’m retired from Law Enforcement but I am a mortgage loan officer on the side in hopes if I ever have to “fall back” again people will still be buying houses like they did during the pandemic. With all the speculation of an upcoming recession I would advise all pilots, junior on the seniority list like myself to have a good fall back plan they dabble in on their days off.
Just my .02
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Hi Chris,
I have graduated from 2 online university programs, and they were great. I learned a ton and got a degree while working in a different state. It’s not for everyone, though. You need a ton of self-discipline to get through an online degree, and excellent organizational skills. An online program might be great for you, but it also might not be. I would recommend trying in out in some way. It can save you money, but only if you actually complete the degree.
Good luck!
-Jake