Hi, I have a year left of college but dont want to finish as I have a big interest in becoming and Airline Pilot. So my question is do you need a graduate degree to become one? Thank you
Mark,
Welcome to the forum, your question is a FAQ. We recommend reviewing the FAQs as many questions have already been answered. The forum is a great source for answers:
But to answer your question, most (if not all) Regional Airline do not require a degree while a Major Airline will. You can find requirements for your airline of interest in specific by going to the careers tab of the airline of choosing.
Brady
Mark,
You would be foolish to not complete your degree with only a year left. While the airlines don’t require one, they do most definitely prefer one and having it will make you far more competitive when it comes time to move on to a Major.
Adam
1 Like
Hi Adam! If you don’t mind me asking you a question on this thread… I am debating if I should go to a college called “Cal Baptist University” is Twas I’d say ATP… They have a flight school there & I would be getting my bachelors in aviation science. One of the perks is 250 less required flight hours! What do you think?
Naomi,
There are many routes to the airlines and everyone needs to choose what’s best for them. That said I’ve never been a fan of University degree programs. As a general rule they’re often very expensive and always take far too long to complete. Further the airlines neither require nor desire an aviation degree and should things not work out with flying, that degree doesn’t really offer much as far as a backup goes.
Ultimately it’s your decision but we recommend getting your degree first, in something other than aviation, and then doing your flight training using an accelerated program like ATPs. While you will require the full 1500hrs to get to an airline, the direct entry programs and airline partnerships ATP has far outweigh the hour reduction.
Adam
Naomi,
I am not a fan of college flight programs, they are expensive and often take way longer than they should. The airlines just want to see a degree, they do not care what it is in. We usually recommend getting a degree first, but not in aviation.
Chris
Hey Adam and Chris. I just wanted to propose an alternative and see what you guys think. My personal situation is I am about halfway to my 4 year degree currently. My start date with my accelerated flight program is August 22. I plan on finishing my degree either while building experience or at the regionals if it is not finished yet. Is there a particular reason you guys recommend prospective pilots get their degree first before earning their ratings instead of doing it while they are an inexperienced pilot? I’m curious to see what you guys have to say.
Thanks!
Robin,
For me there’s 3 issues. First there have been many students who go straight from HS into the program and frankly don’t have the maturity to dedicate themselves 100% and ultimately fail. ATP used to actually have a hard degree requirement to prevent this but due to the high demand they’ll now consider people on an individual basis.
Second when I was at the Regionals I knew a few pilots who all had planned to get ir complete their degrees online and never did. It requires a fair bit of discipline to do while you’re flying having a grand old time. If that’s a route you want to take you need to be honest with yourself and know if it’s something you can handle.
Finally while many people want to fly, the reality is not everyone can or should be airline pilots. It’s not simply a matter of intelligence, there’s a physical component and frankly not everyone gets it. As I said above, it’s always a good idea to have a backup plan just in case things don’t work out either my choice or circumstance.
Adam
Thank you for the clarification Adam. To your third point. What would you say the milestone should be to help somebody determine if it is right for them as a career and that they have the aptitude? Do you think that soloing would be a good measure?
Thank you again
Robin,
I think for everyone it’s different. Some after that first flight go all in. Some need a little more reassurance.
But to answer your question I do think first solo is a really good gateway. While you’re not a pilot when you solo, you should have some sense of the process and I very basic idea of the type of skills and knowledge you’ll need to be successful. Please don’t misunderstand, things will most definitely get more challenging as you progress and you still might struggle some, but if it takes you an excessive amount of time for your instructor to sign you off for the solo or if the most basic concepts are incomprehensible, flying might not be for you.
That said if after you go up a few times and it just feels right, I’m in no position to tell you you’re wrong. The ones that make me twitch are all the folks who watch the news, see there’s a pilot shortage and think to themselves “I’ve sat in the back of a big jet going on vacation, those guys just turn on the autopilot, I can do that”. Their biggest concern is whether they should fly a Delta A350 or United 787 because everything else is a given (until they go up in a Cessna and lose their lunch). Literally blows my mind! (Sorry for the rant).
Adam
3 Likes
Naomi,
It seems logical that aviation programs seem to be the best course right, knocking two birds out with one stone so to speak. Plus the hour reduction for an ATP is a distracting perk… however, in reality, they aren’t nearly as efficient as they seem.
For one, the degree is rather useless as a backup. If you get furloughed because the industry is tanking, you won’t find a job within aviation because they’re all effected.
Two, the flight training pace doesn’t prepare you for the rigors of the career to come. You spend an entire year on a private pilot license, another year for instrument, another year for commercial single. Whether you fly for a charter company or for the airlines you’re going to have somewhere between 3 weeks (flight safety/CAE type ratings)- 3 months (initial 121 training with an airline) to learn an entire new airplane and all the company’s specific operation policies and procedures.
Three, aviation programs are expensive and you come out with a relatively small amount of hours in your logbook.
For all these reasons, you’ll find we recommend you get your degree wherever you want in nothing you want (outside of aviation). Do it on a budget with scholarships, grants or in state tuition so you save money for your future accelerated flight training.
Hannah
Robin,
I think that comes at different times for different people. A solo or solo XC is a good indication of having the aptitude to fly an airplane by yourself and make it safely back on the ground. But you haven’t quite progressed far enough in to training to test if you have what it takes to be successful in future training programs.
At the solo stage, you’re simply two or three weeks in. Where getting through the CFI stage, I believe, might be a better measure. Having the work ethic and grit to get though the extremely accelerated CFI curriculum and be successful out the back end, that’s an early indication of how you’ll handle the stress of an initial 121 training environment.
Hannah
Thank you for taking the time to elaborate Hannah and Adam. Yes I was looking at your opinion to gauge myself. At my first school, I was admittedly an arrogant student and did not perform at the level I believe I am capable of. This stemmed from never being challenged much in my life. I sort of always excelled at everything without much effort and studying. I know this sounds arrogant. That’s my point and what I’m going for here. Law enforcement academy? Blew threw it no problem. Academics other than Math? Easy. It wasn’t a cocky outwardly projected arrogance. It was more internal. I hope that makes sense.
Anyways when I got to flight school, I soloed at 15.5 hours and felt I was progressing fine. Until I unsat my first stage checked and failed my PAR written exam. I then proceeded to discontinue my stage 2 check as it wasn’t going well. (I failed it as far as I am concerned.) I took a few months off after that, came back and built up to about 41 hours, and then had a heart to heart with myself about what was going to be required of me to be successful here. I ended up taking my girlfriend to Hawaii for 9 days. On that first flight, I felt the spark reignite. I believed there was no reason I couldn’t be in the cockpit of an airline jet if I was willing to work hard and dedicate myself.
Now I’m 3 out of 6 written completed with 2 others scheduled, and I start a 6 month career pilot program on August 22nd. As always, I’m extremely grateful for all of the feedback you and your team provide.
Robin,
I can definitely relate to your experience. I ALWAYS did extremely well in school. I rarely needed to study, things just came easy. Unfortunately that meant I really never learned how to study and when things didn’t automatically click it freaked me out a little.
What concerns me is your stage check bust and subsequent withdrawal. Trust me things will get much more challenging as you progress. This is one of those “fight or flight” situations (no pun intended) and you need to remove the flight option. Airline newhire training is no joke. Washout of that and all you’ll have is a good story about how you were almost an airline pilot. It sounds like you’re set with another school (and I’m not trying to sell you), but I have to say if I hadn’t trained at ATP I honestly don’t believe I would’ve been successful. Hopefully your school will do as good a job preparing you for what’s to come.
Adam
Yes I was worried about that too. Just for clarification, that stage check was a pre solo one and I unsat on the pattern work of all things. (The one thing I felt pretty good about haha.) I was in a university 4 year 141 program as mentioned above, and while advertised as “structured,” it was anything but. Of course, I am responsible for my own success, and as I mentioned earlier I was a real “fly by the seat of your pants” kind of student. I felt the 141 program was entirely too stretched out and longer than it needed to be. I am actually still studying at that university, but my major is in finance now. I continued at the flight school though independent of the university for another 30 hours or so. Post solo, XC planning and completed my first solo XC.
Thankfully though, I learned my lesson on a stage check bust instead of an actual check ride bust. According to my research, the stage check failure “shouldn’t” affect me career wise. It did however hurt my pride and teach me a valuable lesson in humility.
Robin,
No it shouldn’t at all. On airline apps, they ask for checkride or any part 121 training event failures. Yours doesn’t qualify as either one of those so don’t worry.
You never wish to fail but honestly, maybe it was the wake up call you needed. From that you shifted direction with your flight training, your degree and found a new focused passion with realistic expectations of what will be needed to be successful.
I too found most things easy growing up from academics in school to sports I played. I was confident in my work ethic and how driven I am to succeed, but nothing could quite prepare me for the challenge of flight training. It’s an avalanche of knowledge, in a small amount of time paired with stick and rudder skills you just have to practice to be good. I didn’t like that I wasn’t good at it right away. It frustrated me but it was completely normal. The biggest factor to determining your success: your attitude.
Being humble, resilient, and putting in the time and effort it demands. That’s how you succeed.
Hannah
1 Like
So how did you get over this? I would argue that is something I have always struggled with as well.
Ben
1 Like
Hi @Hannah,
Did you get to fail in any checkrides?? How bad can that affect your career progress?? Does ATP keep record of the average checkride failures per graduated student??
Just want to understand a bit more how common/uncommon this is and how can it affect your career
Thanks
Ben,
Honestly I’m not sure I ever did. I’m still a poor study and simply force myself to just keep reviewing until I absorb it (no matter how long it takes). I do find by writing the information down (old school) it seems to help.
Adam
1 Like
Francisco,
I don’t know if ATP keeps a record but ATP is clear, bust more than 2 checkrides and you may not be offered an instructor position.
In my experience one bust is fairly common, and 2 is right behind that. 3 you will be asked questions (how you answer is critical). Beyind that it could seriously impact your career. As it should.
Adam