Financing Opinion and Base Location

ATP Admissions, Housing & Finance Questions
1

Hey all,

I’m trying to decide between two rather different offers I received from Sallie Mae vs Wells Fargo. Initially I put in an application for $91,295 to both of them, including things like examiner’s fees, materials and living expenses stipend. Sallie Mae accepted the full amount, Wells Fargo countered with a lower amount. Here’s the breakdown.

Sallie Mae: Approved for $91,295 at 9.8% with monthly payments around $1,040
Wells Fargo: Approved for $80,000 at 6.4% with monthly payments around the $700 mark

Now, to me a difference of $300 is nothing inconsequential. That alone can pay for my auto payment, insurance and perhaps a utility bill or two. However, it does mean I’ll have to pay for examiner’s fees and some of the materials out of pocket. I do already have an iPad Pro with LTE, and also a ForeFlight membership. As well as ASA brand headphones (not sure if they’re of decent quality or not). What worries me is that I won’t have the stipend of $800 a month, and I’ll just have to cross my fingers that my very supportive spouse will be able to pay rent and bills while I’m training. (I’ve been told that working while going to ATP is unadvisable at best)

Another slight concern I have is the limited time allotments, the closest ATP airport to me is Class C, hence I feel like most of my time is going to be wasted trying to communicate with the tower, waiting for other traffic, leaving that airspace, and then being vectored back in, and the whole thing again. Now I know this will be great experience and that I’ll probably master the whole ATC aspect a lot quicker compared to if I was based in a Class G location. However, I feel like I could have more time practicing the actual maneuvers if I were to be flying out of a Class G airport, since it could potentially be a lot faster to get in and out. Now I might be totally wrong here, and perhaps RIC is super easy to get in and out of quickly.

I also want to get ahead by taking my writtens and getting them out of the way before I start ATP. Is this a good idea? Or should I wait to start the program? I did see something about this on the ATP website, which is how I got the idea.

Apologies for the lengthy post, I have many other questions but I’ll save them for the poor CFI I’ll be meeting next Monday. (I also have some non-US citizen specific questions but I figured there aren’t many “aliens” around here so I’ll also save those for the intro flight day)

Many thanks and cheers,
Efe

EDIT: Forgot to ask about my medical. I have a class 1 medical certificate that was issued back in September 2017. Will I need to renew this or is good for the duration of training considering it will just revert to a…class 2? (Given that I will be at ATP from June 2018 to April 2019)

1 Like
2

Efe,

I understand some of your concerns so I’ll offer my take.

Let’s start with the loan. Regarding that frankly I don’t really understand what you’re asking? Clearly Wells is a better deal at 3.4% less interest and $300 less a month. The questions is can you survive without the extra $11.3K and that sir is something you and only you can answer? Crossing your fingers is not really sound financial planning. You and your wife need to sit down and do the math. Again I don’t really understand the question?

Not sure where you got this idea that by training in a Class C airport “most of my time will be wasted”? ATP operates out of many Class C airports. ATP also gives you a fixed amount of hours to complete your training. Since ATP has been successfully training pilots out of Class C airports for over 30yrs, clearly most of your time won’t be wasted. If it were ATP would’ve been forced to shut down their operations there years ago. Your choice and I always recommend a training location that’s most convenient but I disagree with your thinking. This is RIC not MDW we’re talking about.

If you spend any time on this forum you’d know ATP clearly states on their website (and all the mentors agree) that taking as many of the writtens prior to starting is advantageous. It considerably lightens the workload and allows you to focus on your training and daily lessons.

Adam

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3

Adam, thank you for your quick reply!

About the financing, I was just looking for a second opinion and to hear others’ experiences to help me decide if it would be worth taking the higher amount, but I do understand how it seems like a bad question. Just checking twice before I make a big commitment is all. I have full faith in my spouse, but you never know what life will throw at you. In case of dire need, borrowing from family is always an option, I’m just trying to avoid it.

I got the idea about the Class C airport subject from a youtube video posted by a current ATP student. My initial thought were similar to yours, I realize ATP has been operating for a long time and that if this were really that big of a deal, there would be some sort of action taken by now. I hope you understand my being cautious before making big decisions like these. Clearly that particular student was exaggerating, I rest reassured, I suppose I just needed to hear that from someone at ATP. Thank you.

I will look into getting as many of the writtens done as I can. I just thought that maybe getting some hands-on time in the air would help facilitate learning better than just reading and memorizing before taking a test.

Generally, despite reading horrific reviews of ATP on the internet everywhere, I try my best to give ATP the benefit of the doubt and keep in mind that it’s been in the industry for 3 decades and has partnerships with many airlines. Clearly those partnerships wouldn’t be possible if it weren’t a quality school.

Thanks once again,
Efe

4

Efe,

It seems to me that taking the Sallie Mae loan is a no-brainer, but that is up to you.

I instructed at Richmond for a few weeks, the airspace is not an issue there. ATP does not want students sitting on the ground, wasting airplane time anymore than you do. It is in both of your best interests for you to pass checkrides and ground time does not help in that arena. What I am getting at is that ATP keeps track of things like ground time and if a change needs to occur, it does. In fact, I actually instructed at a location that was closed because students were spending too much of their time getting outside a special kind of airspace that is around Washington, DC.

As for the negative reviews on the internet, I get that there are a lot of keyboard warriors out there. Head on over to the “Student Experiences” section of this forum. The posts there are from current and former students. We do not edit that forum one bit, so what you see is what you get there.

Chris

5

Efe,

One more thing. I know you have a list of questions for your CFI, but also feel free to ask us whatever comes to mind. We are always happy to help.

Chris

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6

Hi Efe,

Did you applied to Sallie Mae with a co-signer? I want to start school no later then July this year and even though my credit is ok. Apparently they always require for co-signer… but I don’t know if this is true or how rigorous their qualifying criteria is.

7

Renzo,

Keep in mind that everybody’s situation is different and Efe’s experience might not be the same as yours. If the bank or ATP admissions told you that you need a co-signer, then you will need a co-signer.

Chris

1 Like
8

Thanks Chris,

I am aware of that. I haven’t applied yet but I just want to have all my bases covered in case they do ask for a co signer… =|

9

Efe,

When everyone starts we all have the best intentions of learning all the material for the writtens and be as knowledgeable as possible. The fact is you’ll learn the info that’s relevant during ground school and studying for and taking the writtens is just rote.

I was flying yesterday out of HNL yesterday with a new FO. They’re doing some construction and one of the main runways is closed creating some congestion which we generally don’t have. At one point we were #5 for departure and he was having a fit. Problem was he had never flown out of JFK, ATL or ORD where you can find yourself #50 for departure vs #5. Everything is relative. You’ll be fine.

There are and always have been “horrific reviews” of ATP. The fact is not everyone who dreams of being a pilot can or should be and ATP does a very good job of weeding out some of those people. Just like the airlines ATP requires a tremendous amount of hard work and discipline which not everyone can handle. It’s much easier to blame ATP than accept that fact it’s you. Again ATP has been doing what they do for over 30yrs and had over 500+ pilots hired at airlines in the last year alone. You see the successful grads are too busy working as airline pilots to be posting on youtube.

Adam

1 Like
10

Renzo,

Just like Adam said, there are many variables in qualifying for a loan. It will undoubtably help if you have a cosigner with good credit and a high income. I did have a cosigner with my application, and my own credit is also pretty good. Wells Fargo knew exactly what I was trying to do as soon as I said ATP, and they understand the program, as well as the airline job market as it stands now. They know that, if you are successful in the program, you will easily get an airline job and will be able to make your monthly payments. Sallie Mae representatives seemed a little more confused about ATP, but the actual underwriters approving your loan probably know about ATP as well. Keep in mind that they receive many loan requests every month from new ATP students like us.

Looking for advice on qualifying for a loan online is a little pointless since it’s a case-by-case basis. Just apply for both of them and see which one gives you a better deal.

15

Efe,

Thanks for your response, it helps a lot to know the process and experience from someone that already went thru it. When you applied did you do it over the phone or online?

My only hesitation right now to apply is that I am trying to get my credit score a little higher since I want to apply by myself first. My credit is good but if they still require a co-signer that might stall me for a bit. So that’s why I have all these questions…

But like you said I would not know until I apply.

16

Renzo,

I applied online since it’s easier to fill out forms online than on the phone but there will always be a phone aspect to it. They usually call you soon after you apply and will discuss most of the details of the loan over the phone.

I highly doubt increasing your credit score by a few points will make a huge difference. They mostly look at income-to-debt ratio, your past credit history, your previous loans and balances, payment history… There are many many things that go into their little algorithm. That’s exactly what makes it so difficult to help people with loans, it’s extremely individualized and depends on a vast number of factors.

Just apply and find out what they will tell you. Your best bet is gonna be to call them and ask as many questions as you need. Their job is to help you through this process.