Finished the program! Some thoughts and tips

Whats up y’all!

Been a while but just wanted to check back in. I am super stoked to be able to report that I have completed the ATP 100-Hour program here at KLGB. CFI/CFII/MEI baby! A few minor speed bumps while at CFI (the horror!) :skull_and_crossbones: but ultimately came out of the program 8 for 8 on check-rides. On the waitlist now to begin teaching here at KLGB.

All the initial tips that I mentioned in my PPL checkride post, I pretty much carried over to all subsequent checkrides with a pretty good degree of success. I have a few additional that I’ll list here that proved helpful for me; sorry for the long-winded nature of this post but again, just hope some of it will be helpful:

  • Be open to criticism, and open to different ways of accomplishing even familiar tasks. You will have new instructors, or spot-checks with leads who do something differently that you were trained, or setup their avionics or navs a different way, whatever. Instead of throwing up a wall and saying “but I was taught to do it this way”… just listen to what they are saying. One of the cool things about aviation is that despite the fact that we use standardized checklists and procedures, there are always different ways to skin a cat; by learning the various ways that different pilots accomplish similar tasks, you enhance your correlative knowledge on a topic, and develop your own preferred methods. Briefing instrument approaches, scan technique, setting up navs, communication procedures with approach frequencies are some areas that jump to mind

  • Sim A LOT during instrument phase!

  • A lot of emphasis is placed on how big the question bank for the IRA is. It is indeed huge. But I would recommend knocking out the FULL King School’s Instrument course before you take the IRA, instead of only bashing Sheppard into your brain for hours and hours. King Instrument is free and comes with the program. I spent the time to watch the full King Instrument course and took tons of notes; yes it took a long time but by the end of that week, I was doing well on practice exams for the IRA because I felt like I actually understood all the concepts. None of that “memory aid” crap was necessary, and only ended up using Sheppard for like 1-2 days to kind of “finish up” my prep. (It’s kind of hilarious to me that Sheppard insists that they “don’t emphasize rote memorization” but then they come up with “memory aids” for you that have NOTHING to do with actually understanding holding pattern entries or compass errors. But I digress…) Yes, Sheppard is valuable, but so is actual understanding of the material.

  • Speaking of understanding material… I’ve always found reading multiple sources on the same topic invaluable. When you finish the PHAK chapter on aerodynamics… read the relevant AFH chapters, and the King section, or a Rod Machado chapter, or whatever. During many study sessions I would have literally 5-6 books strewn around within reach… ie you read 91.175 in the FARs which leads you to reading about ALS in the AIM which leads you to reading about Airport Ops in the PHAK. This seems more beneficial to me than simply trying to bust out a single book cover-to-cover. Again, cross-referencing other materials helps correlation and understanding.

  • DON’T SKIP CREW even if you have the option to. What a great and fun experience flying crew was. Particularly if you get a good crew partner who you enjoy hanging out with. For some people who come in with prior experience, the crew phase can be unnecessary to do since you don’t need to time build as much… and sure, the program is expensive, so if you need to save money and don’t need the hours, then fair enough. But I can tell you, the experience of flying WITHOUT an instructor around the country for 1-2 weeks was completely invaluable and a lot of fun. It will be your first true introduction to CRM (crew resource management) in a 2-pilot situation as you both learn to split the workload evenly and logically; it also presents you with invaluable real ADM situations since your instructor isn’t there to takeover if something goes wrong. Additionally, just flying in and out of so many new airports every single day greatly amplifies your confidence in handling unfamiliar airspaces and the radio comms associated with flying cross country.

  • Start your checkride preparations 2-3 days in advance!! Stuff like XC logs, airworthiness, W&B, assembling materials. I can’t tell you how many times I was still at the training center at 11PM the night before a 6AM checkride because I procrastinated on doing airworthiness or my flight log. By around my commercial SE add-on I figured this out but wish I had figured it out sooner… :face_with_spiral_eyes:

  • Chair-flying really never goes out of style!! I was doing it all the way through my CFI/CFII/MEI. Especially whenever transitioning from Cessna to Seminole or back. Usually in the cockpit out on the ramp, but also at home with a good old Cessna or Seminole instrument panel poster.

  • Speaking of CFI… brace yourself. The horror stories are true. You really cannot start preparing for this experience early enough. It is mentally and emotionally exhausting and you will be studying literally 12-15 hours every single day while you are at CFI Academy and even that amount of time will not feel like it is remotely enough. Flying from the right seat does not come easily at first for some people - I myself needed a couple extra flights in order to get all my maneuvers sat, and for most of those flights you are just feeling like absolute crap because you suddenly can’t fly the airplane and it really does not make you feel confident. Just remember… you DO know how to fly the plane, you just have to reprogram all your muscle memory to the other side of your body. And believe me… you WILL become comfortable in that right seat (I fly right seat all the time now and actually prefer it) :slight_smile:

  • Finally, for prospective students… one thing I am really glad I did, that I don’t think many students do… was to VISIT multiple locations (both ATP locations but also non-ATP options) before I made my decision to train at ATP KLGB. Yes, ATP is a standardized curriculum and has a standardized fleet of aircraft. But not all ATP locations are identical. There are different vibes at different locations, different advantages to different size airfields and airspaces, different procedures on ramp security and aircraft availability, etc. Consider what you want out of your training and try to find a location that seems to offer you most of what you desire. Do the instructors and students at your location seem like they enjoy being there? Is the training center in a good condition or in a state of disrepair? Is the airspace going to be conducive to achieving your goals (heavy vs. sparse traffic, ATC delays, training near a busy class Bravo vs. at a Delta in the middle of the great plains, etc).

Overall. Very glad I went to ATP. The program is, to some degree, what you make of it. If you are unsure whether you want to be a professional pilot or not, or you want to “dip your toes” into aviation… probably would recommend going elsewhere at least initially.

But if you are serious, self-motivated, and you absolutely want to become an airline pilot and you are prepared to do whatever it takes to get there… would highly recommend ATP. The program works. It is amazing how much you can learn in 7-8 months when you make it a full-time priority. :small_airplane: :airplane: :rocket:

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Congrats Rudi!

Major accomplishment and thank you for your detailed evaluation. You really nailed many of the key elements particularly when you say it’s “what you make of it”. You’ve got to want it and want it bad, but the rewards are tremendous.

As always keep us posted.

Adam

Rudi,

Congratulations soon finishing the program and especially on being 8 for 8 on the check rides. Thank you for adding your insights as well. Please keep us in the loop as you progress through your career.

Chris

Congrats, Rudi!

I especially like what you said about accepting criticism. That is true no matter where you are in your career. But as you said, best not to let it get to you. Take what you can from each instructor and add it to your bag of tools.

Tory

Tim loves bacon and cheese pizza…what was that thing you made up again?

Wouldn’t have made it through CFI without you man, congrats on the program completion. Hopefully they’ll get you to indoc soon. I’ll see you when you bring your students up to LVK for their 300nm XC.

Alex

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Qiiiiiii!

Dude yeah same to you. I should have mentioned as a footnote to the stresses of CFI Academy… the upside is that you make great friends because you are all going through the same stuff together. Looking forward to coming up to KLVK.

And its:
TIM loves BaCoN On Pizza then Chug Chug Chugs 2x Beers At Bedtime.

TSA, IACRA, Medical, :man_pilot:
61.87(b) 61.87(c) 61.87(n) 61.87(o) 61.87(p) :bacon: :pizza:
61.93(c)(1-2) and (3), 61.93(b)(1) and (2), 61.95(a), 61.95(b). :beer: :beer: :sleeping:

It works I tell you!! My crowning achievement

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I am so confused as to what on earth you two are talking about, lol.

Chris,

TIM :heart:‘s BACON, how could you never know who Tim is and what he loves. Ha.

Yea Chris! How could you not know? And you call yourself a pilot!

I was actually thinking the same thing, difference is I think you’re curious, where I am not hence why I didn’t ask :wink:

Adam

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Hi Chris,

Rudi and I were roommates at Mesa for CFI. Tim loves Bacon is how some people remember what’s required for initial solo: TSA, IACRA, Medical,
61.87(b) 61.87(c) 61.87(n). Then Rudi made up this whole pizza and beer chugging thing to remember all the other solo related regs and endorsements. He passed his checkride, so I guess it worked :rofl:

Alex

3 Likes

Interesting. Whatever works.

What a great write-up Rudi, and congrats!
Looking forward to my experience at LVK in a couple weeks.

Maybe I’ll see ya around.

-Chris

Hi Rudy,

Thanks for the great tips! I’m looking at starting ATP at KLGB sometime this year and was hoping to get some info from you (or anyone familiar with KLGB).

  1. Since it’s a multi engine location, does that mean that most of the students there are doing the 100+ multi program?

  2. You mentioned that you’re waiting for a CFI position…what is the current wait list time for KLGB?

  3. With no ATP student housing, are there certain areas/neighborhoods that a lot of students/instructors have found good housing (safe, affordable, close to the school, etc)?

Thanks,
Lee

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Hey Lee.

  1. During my time there it seemed like maybe a 50/50 split regarding students in the multi-program vs not. I think doing the multi-program is the right choice; several of the DPEs mentioned to me that they felt like the multi program students tend to be better pilots overall, which I think makes sense as you switch back and forth between 172 and Seminole multiple times during the program and have to refresh your skills on each. Not to mention, flying crew in the Seminole is much better than doing it in the 172 (faster cruise = more options and you can fly farther on your trips).

  2. Last I checked I was 5th on the waitlist. But everywhere needs CFIs so… there is work to be had while awaiting a spot at ATP…

  3. Most people I met while here live all over the place. Very few actually lived in Long Beach. Some drive from Fullerton, Orange County, etc. I moved here for the school so I live very close, like 10 minutes from the training center.

Feel free to DM if you have any more questions

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Awseome hope you get spot soon. Would being flexible to relocating give you a better chance at getting hired quicker? And not that it makes much of difference but did they give you a timeline on when you might get hired?

Rubin,

I can assure you that being flexible makes a huge difference in when you might get hired. Right now there are several locations that have immediate openings.

Chris

Multi program pilots are better? Next time you are up here you and I are going out to do some Chandelles and Lazy 8’s and we’ll see about that :grin: (not in ATP planes, in case anyone in management is reading :sweat_smile:)

Rubin:

Yes, if you will move anywhere you can get a job immediately once you finish ATP MEI. It looked like there were 15 or so locations with immediate openings when I was given access to the list.

I chose KLGB as my 3 locations because I like it here, and because I already have another job at this airport. So I don’t mind waiting for a spot to open. I think I’m number 4 already as somebody I know just went to indoc.