Anyone hear about the ATP and Frontier thing going on? Does anyone have any 2 cents about Frontier? I’ve done some research and find good and bad things about Frontier, like most places, but more bad than good (mainly on customer service side).
Just curious about some opinions out there.
Is there any official word about that from ATP proper? All I heard was second-hand unverified information.
Kyle,
I haven’t heard anything but as fast as customer service goes many airlines are lacking. You should be more concerned with how they treat their pilots.
Adam
Family friend of mine is a lead IP at an ATP location. His friend (a fellow instructor) was chosen for this new “direct to Frontier” thing.
Curious to find out more about that in the future, if able.
The Frontier program is not official yet, but is in the works. Currently ATP has several instructors that are scheduled to begin class at Frontier in February, with more in the works.
Yes, these instructors are going straight to Frontier, a major airline, with 1,500 hours. This is an incredible opportunity for them. They could either stay at Frontier and have a great career there, or some might use their experience to jump to other legacy airlines. I personally think a career flying domestic out of Denver sounds great, but everybody has their own ideas.
When the program is official, ATP will formally announce it, for now it is still in the formation stages.
Chris,
How would that jump work as most legacies want 1,000 hour “Pilot Commander” time. Would that person sit at Frontier for 7-8 years to upgrade and take the higher pay during their waiting period to the Majors?
Edit: So I don’t see the “Pilot Commander” time on any airline apps requirements but I’m pretty sure that places like American had it in there before as they wanted Captain time not PIC so they had changed the wording before.
Tom,
I don’t know the details of the program but I can tell you the answer is no. As long as they meet the FAA mins, airlines can and do raise and lower their own hiring mins based on their needs. Clearly Frontier needs bodies, are concerned about future hiring based on the needs of the other Majors or simply see the value of the ATP product. Back before the 1500hr Rule ExpressJet’s mins were 700hrs. I got hired with 500 because they made the exception for ATP grads.
Once you get hired however you’re a newhire on the seniority list and your pay and advancement will be based on your seniority. The union wouldn’t allow it any other way. Those pilots will upgrade at Frontier and earn their PIC time just like pilots do at the Regionals and shouldn’t have to wait any longer then they would BUT they’d be getting paid better.
Adam
No I learned all that from you guys back in the day. I meant for the jump from Frontier to American/Delta/United if someone so chose to. I know they used to have their own definition of PIC time. I figure they would have to wait a little longer as you can upgrade in a Regional as little as 1-2 yrs but Frontier is 3-4yrs (Philly being the junior by almost a year less than the other domiciles). Would the Legacy’s see LCC FO time as equivalent to Regional FO time or Regional Capt time?
Tom,
Opinions vary on this one. Personally I think it’s a great opportunity. Under normal circumstances you’re right as it’ll take longer to ever build turbine PIC. BUT, the Majors all seem to be coming off the PIC experience and second the fact someone was hired at Frontier directly from flight instructing is impressive.
Factor in the fact that should things slow I’d rather be “stuck” at an LCC than at a Regional.
Adam
As always thanks for the insight!!! I unfortunately wont be able to partake in the chance but doesn’t mean I can’t still learn more from you guys.
Tom,
That is the great question. Is FO time in an Airbus worth more than captain time in an Embraer 145? I certainly think it is, but that is my opinion. The majors are looking for a combination of factors that make a good pilot. I just flew with an FO that came from ExpressJet with no captain time. I was the same way.
Chris
Wow that’s amazing that you and him were both able to go from right seat regional to right seat major! I’m sure it took a lot of hard work and dedication but still is an inspiring accomplishment!
Thanks for your thoughts!!
I seem to be flying with more and more pilots that made the right seat regional to right seat major jump. For all those out there wondering, every one of them had a college degree.
Chris
so then how long would you say they were at a regional for? Would they have been at a regional the same amount of time that they’d have been if they went FO to Cap then to the major? Or would they do their time as an FO then around when they’d be able to upgrade to cap, time maters make the jump to the major
Joshua,
It really varies. I feel like I would be stabbing in the dark to try and out a number on it. Sorry, I know this isn’t the answer you are looking for.
Chris
Haha it’s all good! I figured it probably varies too.
Joshua,
I wouldn’t get too excited just yet. Things are moving nicely and people are indeed advancing but understand by far the majority of the newhires at the Majors have upgraded. There are exceptions but there’s usually something outstanding on their resume or their contacts.
Adam
I’m still a ways away from any airline was just curious!