I will make sure to keep my question short but to the point. As a very passionate person about what my future could hold as an airline pilot, I am constantly investigating into how to achieve my goals. I understand that I am still new (~ 93 Hrs), and I have quite the journey ahead of me. However, I wanted a more concrete grasp on how movement from a narrow-body to wide-body plane flows in the legacys.
My question is about how things work in your timeline as a pilot. Let’s say, for example, you do your time in a regional… flow to a major, and start off in a 737/a320 as a FO. You will, based on my recent readings on these forums, remain a FO for 4-7 years until you upgrade to captain (could be sooner or later . . . I know). However, once you are captain for some time, I assume there is a point where your seniority number gets its turn in line and you get the opportunity to move to the wide-body aircraft.
I would really like to understand how long it may be before you could get into a wide-body position, and . . . if you do, do you remain as a captain? Also, I see that pay on AirlinePilotCentral.com is referenced by a number of years. Are these numbers referring to years in the airline or the aircraft? If you have been a pilot in the 737 for 12 years and maxed out your pay as a captain, does that number stay at 12? Do you get FO pay or Captain pay? If you get FO pay, does that mean you have to make the decision to go from making +$250k a year as a 737 captain to around +$200k a year as a 12th year 777/a350 FO?
I know it’s a lot, but I hope I made things clear. I essentially just want to know if you keep your captainship status upon moving to another plane. And, if not, do you just have to sacrifice your pay for a few years until you can upgrade to captain? If so, how long do Wide-body captain upgrades typically take?
First off how soon you get to a widebody depends on many variables centered around seniority and your priorities. If you’re goal is to simply fly a widebody it’s simply a matter of targeting the lowest seniority airframe (older is usually more junior) and the base with the lowest seniority. Now that could mean commuting and forgoing a Capt slot. Regardless with all the variables it’s almost impossible to predict.
Now to your questions. Your pay is based on years of service with the airline, not the length of time on the plane. So if you’ve been at an airline for 12yrs, you’ll be getting 12yr pay. Whether it’s Capt or FO pay is based on what position you hold. To use your example, yes, if you’re a 12yr 737 Capt making $250, if you choose to go to the widebody as an FO yes you’re going to take a paycut as you’re no longer a Capt on that 777.
That again is why I say there are too many variables. Some people chase the pay, some it’s the plane, others it’s the schedule. No one is right or wrong, it’s just a matter of what’s most important to you.
Thank you for the quick response! It is definitely super appreciated! I’m not sure where my goals are, and I understand it is hard to predict because every person’s story within the industry is different. I always thought that wide-body international travel was my calling, but I have yet to even experience any of this for myself. So… who knows what I’ll do! I guess it depends on where I am in life at the time.
Do you give up a lot of seniority benefits when you move to a wide body? And does wide-body often result in more time off? Also, as a Hawaiian airlines pilot, how is the weather over there? It sounds like a great lifestyle you live, and it’s definitely one of the more unique aviation lifestyles!
How much seniority you give up is again dependant on you. If you go to a widebody aircraft (or upgrade for that matter) the first chance you get you will be junior on that plane or in that seat. Many people wait until they don’t. Again your choice.
Generally widebody schedules will provide me days off since they often fly further and the trips have more value so you need to fly less of them in a month.
Hows the weather in Hawaii? It’s Hawaii! One of the busiest, most popular vacation destinations in the world. Suffice to say the weather is pretty good. When I first got here one day I got to a plane and the paperwork said the weather radar was out. I was alarmed because this is usually a big issue but when I checked the book there was a note “not required in the state of Hawaii”. That’s how good the weather is here!
Just to clarify, lets say being a line-holder is extremely important to someone, i.e. they do not want to sit reserve. Is this implying that someone might wait to upgrade to captain until they are certain their seniority as a captain will be senior enough to hold a line?
That’s exactly what I mean and something many pilots do. On many airline Vacancy bids you can even bid a “contingency” (either a seniority position or percentage) saying I want this airplane, this seat, this base BUT ONLY if I’m here seniority wise otherwise skip me.
Many pilots wait to upgrade to Captain, or to change to a larger aircraft, until they are able to hold a line. This is very commonly done. I waited about a year to upgrade to Captain.
The weather in Hawaii is so fine for months at a time, when I was in the military we had a couple of newer pilots we wanted to actually experience some IFR conditions for approaches in their training…after waiting for any chance of that to pop up locally for over a month, we eventually had to fly all the way to Oregon to make that happen!
I have two questions. What do you mean by “targeting the lowest seniority airframe?” Also, how would someone go about figuring out an airline’s base with the lowest seniority?
Adam means that if you goal is simply to fly a widebody airplane, you would bid for whichever wide body at your company is possible to hold with the least seniority.
There really is no such thing as a truly “low seniority” base. Newark is often where our new hires get sent because it tends to be rather junior on the FO side. But there are many senior FOs and Captains that are well established in New Jersey and therefor the base can also be rather senior.
Chris answered your questions well. In all likelihood you wont know which airframe at which base is most junior till you’re there. Further, even if you did, by the time you get there it could be completely different.
