Hello, I’m looking to return to aviation and make it into the airlines. I have a CPL (ASEL) with about 410 hours, IFR, AGI, and Remote Pilot Certificate, but the majority of my flying was done approximately 10 years ago. I have a current First Class Medical, but I am out of my biannual flight review. I currently work a full time job and would like a career change. After doing some research, I would like some advice on the best way to proceed.
From what I’ve read elsewhere in the forum, would I be correct in the understanding that it is too late for me to enter a full-time program such as ATP? Essentially, would I finish my CFI with a Part 61 program and be hired at a flight school to build hours?
Another concern of mine, going back to where I mentioned “finishing” my CFI, is that I have some prior disapprovals from my flight training 10 years ago. I didn’t pass my PPL on my 17th birthday, and I tried to pass the CFI checkride 3 other times in 2014. That all occurred while I was in college (except for my PPL of course), and I would like to think that I have grown from those failures - and I’m also no longer attempting to balance college student life at the same time now that I have a degree. I’ve read that this can be an issue when it comes time for the interview - as it already makes me ineligible for some cadet/pathway programs. If I return to aviation with a mature work ethic, would it be feasible for me to articulate the disapprovals that happened 10 years ago and be competitive when it’s time to apply for the airlines?
Edit: To give a little more information on my background, I am currently 29 and have worked for a government entity (apologies for not elaborating further) for the past 5.5 years. The closest thing to aviation that I have done since I graduated college is flying drones for work, so I stay current with related CFR’s and I’m also considered a subject matter expert for this role. I also instruct new drone pilots within the scope of my role and have exercised the AGI ability to sign off our pilots for the written exams.
I’m not going to lie, 4 busts is alot and the airlines don’t really care if you can if you can fly a drone.
You do will of course need to get current (with actual airplanes) and also earn your MultiEngine rating. At that point you have a few options. Flight instructing isn’t the only way to build time and you might be able to find another low time job when you get to 500hrs. If you want to pursue instructing you’ll need to nail your CFI on the first time or your whole “I was immature but I’m a grownup now” will go right out the window.
If you get current and build the time I think you still could have a shot but understand United and Delta won’t be banging your door down to hire you. You may not get your first choice of Regional and you may need to spend some quality time there. While there’s still a shortage, hiring has definitely slowed and the airlines can be more selective. I think you’ll need to accept the possibility of spending your career at a Regional or LCC. Getting to a Major might take a while or not happen at all.
ATP has two entry points, Zero Time and Credit Private, and from my understanding, you have your commercial certificate. You will need to find a Part 61 school that you could acquire your CMEL add-on and build your flight time. “Restarting from scratch” won’t clear your flight record.
While we preach that the Certified Flight Instructor (CFI) right is one of the hardest checkrides, it still designates a disapproval on your record. It would be one thing if you only had failed the Private Pilot checkride, but you’re going to have to work through this adversity. 17 years old taking the Private Pilot is tough, flying an airplane that young of age I have seen some local pilots try and they either discontinue or disapprove.
Since you’re not current under 14 CFR 61, you will need to regain the currency via a flight review - the term biannual was removed a few years back.
I think you should build the time, find a Regional Airline (if you desire that route) that has a flow or pathway for the back pocket, and try that way to get to the Majors, if you desire. Hiring has slowed down temporary; it’s known across the globe. It won’t last forever, but right now, airlines can pick and choose who they want right now due to all of the factors out of their control. Otherwise, I think flying is the coolest thing out there and even if the 121 world isn’t for you, you have other options that can keep you flying.
Thank you both for your honesty and opinion; this helps a lot since I am trying to evaluate the entire career change. Realism seems to be what’s needed at this point, and your input is valuable.
With that being said, would the timeline that is traditionally given for the pilot flow from Regionals into the Majors be out the window? I assume that this would be due to building seniority in an effort to balance out the prior issues, or does that not matter when it’s time for the interview into the Majors?
The Majors probably aren’t out of the question but like many things it’s a matter of supply/demand and timing.
We had a really good ride the last couple of years. The airlines saw this looming pilot shortage, panicked and hired everyone with 1500hrs and a pulse. They’ve caught up and while they’re still hiring, the supply is now greater and that allows them to be more selective (that again is right now. Could things open up again? Sure. Can they grind to a halt? Sure). What people don’t realize or understand is a) while hiring was strong, there was also much higher failure rates and b) training pilots is VERY expensive. During the boom the orders were hire every body you can get and we’ll eat the cost of the failures. When things catch up wise it becomes more about who do we think will be successful in training. Let’s be honest, if you were hiring for a position AND were well aware of the rigors of newhire training, would you hire the guy with zero busts or the guy with 4? With that in mind your best shot is to do REALLY well going forward, suffer no further training issues (maybe even get into the training department at a Regional?) and demonstrate you’re a changed person. But again, there are zero guarantees and if you know you’d never be happy not getting that seat at a Major you should really rethink this because it is a possibility.
I mentioned the flow because it’s a great tool to have in the back pocket. I had many classmates leave my airline to go to a ULCC (no names mentioned) and now put into a position questioning their status of employment. A flow is a great tool to have in the back pocket because it all comes down to seniority and your standing in the company for when your number gets called. If you have violations within the company or a record that doesn’t withhold contractual agreements, you may be skipped for a class or more.
Most flows are typically 5-6 years; however, that depends on the hiring that the parent companies are doing. If the parents aren’t hiring, the flows are going to slowly back down, causing a lengthy term. I’ve flown with a few captains at my airline that were excited for a class date, then the parent company halted hiring (like many other companies), and now extending their timeline… it’s not a bad thing (I enjoy flying with them - not trying to sound selfish), but they want to continue their career and horizons (pun intended).
The nice thing about flows and pathways, it’s your one stop interview for the parent company.
At this point I’d focus on getting current and proficient in a single engine airplane again. Then I would move on to a multi engine add on rating and look for low time jobs. You can’t afford another bust so I wouldn’t take your chances on the hardest ride with 3 prior busts on that rating attempt. The examiner will be incredibly harsh and skeptical of your abilities before you even walk in the room. Besides if you get the CFI, you’ll still need at least a CFII to instruct at most schools (for safety). Plus you’ll still need the multi add on to meet the prerequisites for the ATP. So that’s 3 rides or 1…. I’d go with one.
There are a lot of great pipeline gigs that is in multi engine aircraft doing IFR cross countries. That would be really great time. Plus if you show up for an interview with over 1000 hours of multi time, compared to the typical candidates basic 25 that could be enough to outweigh a few checkride failures.