When did you get your bachelors degree before or after atp? Because I was thinking I could get my associates before I go to atp then once I get to regionals I could do online college to get my bachelors.
Rudy,
I had my degree before attending ATP. I have to say though, I like your idea a lot and think that it is a great way to get to the airlines in the most expeditious way possible. The only caveat is that you need to make sure that you do not allow life to get in the way of completing the degree, because you will absolutely need it when applying to the majors.
Chris
Chris
I am becoming a senior in high school this summer and live outside Raleigh NC. My plan right now is to go to community college like I said but the summer between my first and second year get a PPL. I know getting the PPL outside of atp isn’t as cost efficient but do you think it would make getting to airlines faster by doing that.
Rudy
Rudy,
While getting your PPL (AND the required 80hrs) will save you 3 mos off the program time, the time and expense it’ll cost you to get your PPL is usually not worth it.
Also as Chris said , while I appreciate your desire to be as expeditious as possible, getting your BA after you’re a Regional pilot requires a great deal of discipline. I seriously consider completing college first.
Adam
Rudy,
Getting your PPL outside of ATP could save you three months, if all the stars lines up exactly right. Let’s say for a moment that you aren’t able to finish your PPL over the summer, then you will be trying to balance flying and college, which can be very difficult.
I would suggest taking summer classes at your college and trying to graduate a semester early. That is what I did and it worked out quite well.
Chris
Have you considered attending a college with an aviation program? There are several in Texas (not sure about NC) that have 2-4 year degrees and get you to CFI and beyond. Kill 2 birds with one stone. Plus you will pay about the same, maybe a little more (unless you go to ERAU), as ATP but you will get a degree at same time.
Not trying to talk you out of ATP, but being in HS you have more options than somebody like me who has been out of school with a degree for several years and need to make a career change as quickly as possible minimizing income-less months.
I have thought about getting a 4 year teacher degree then going to atp maybe getting a ppl sometime before atp. I don’t want to get a degree in aviation just in case I lose a class 1 medical though. I obviously have to think alot about it though. What if I went back to college after atp and didn’t join a regional until afterwards.
Rudy,
Going back to college after ATP really does not make sense as your flying skills would immediately start to degrade. I recommend college, then flight training. This is the proven track that has worked for so many before you.
Chris
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Chris,
I think I will do 4 year first like you said. I can’t wait to fly though so I will take on learning as much as i can about flying until then. I will be back in a few years and hopefully the airline boom will still be active.
Rudy
If you get a degree in say aviation management then you will be able to go to an airline sooner and if you loose your medical you will still have a management degree. Just a word of advice. Probably 85% of jobs don’t care what your degree is in. It’s just the fact you have one. If you can get one that gets you to the airlines sooner. All the better.
Grant,
An aviation degree will in no way get you to an airline faster. The vast majority of pilots do not have aviation degrees and there is no extra consideration given for those that do in the selection process.
Chris
FAR 61.160(b) it will get you to the airlines quicker having an aviation degree.
Yes I agree you can have a degree in basket weaving and it doesn’t matter if your referring to the majors but I think if you were going to get a degree first which he stated he is, and if you want a degree that will further you in life if you lose your medical a aviation management or if you like mechanics aviation maintance degree will not only get you to the airlines at 21 and 1000 hours it’s a great fall back. Outside of aviation having a management degree is a way in the door to many careers outside of aviation.
Grant,
Sorry, but you are not correct here. To begin with, it isn’t just having a degree in aviation that gets the reduction in hours, you need to attend a college that has a FAA approved aviation program, there is a big difference between those two things. Secondly, while yes, one can go to the airlines at 1,000 hours, that will take at least 5-6 years going through an aviation college. Contrast that to going to community college for two years, then going to ATP and instructing for two years, which gives us a total of four years, two years less than the route you propose. At some point the pilot would need to return to college and finish a degree, but they are already at the airlines at this point.
An aviation maintenance degree is not really a degree, it is a two year certification that will likely not give any credits towards getting an actual degree someday and would not count for the reduction of the 1,500 hour requirement.
Chris
Grant,
If you read FAR 61.160(b) you’ll clearly see it states not only must you have an aviation degree BUT also the flight training MUST be done as part of that degree. While you are correct that there’s an hour reduction to obtain an R-ATP, it will not as you say “get you to the airlines quicker” as you need to complete that degree and THEN start building the time.
As far as the backup with an aviation degree, personally if I couldn’t fly I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near the industry, but that’s me.
Adam
Dang I should of posted the reg I was referring to so I didn’t have to spell out every detail and the kid could read it himself. Also 6 years to get through a 4 year college program. If it take you 6 years to get through a college aviation program what makes you think he will be able to keep up with atp in 9 months? And yes there are a slew of colleges that offer a aviation maintainance program as a 4 year degree and some even build flight raiting into that same program.
Adam I’m the same way I either want to be flying or out of the aviation world. But the kid who posted this is neither of us and he may just want to be in aviation no matter what he’s doing. Pulling a tug or flying he plane. And a management degree is a management degree. Also I have not read anything in the regs that prevents you from front loading your flying so that you could possibly instruct while finishing your degree. But if you see something that says otherwise let me know. Would be helpful. Thanks
Grant,
Nobody said six years to get through an aviation program. Most programs are four years, plus the time that will be spent instructing, hence where I got the six years from. Also, it would be almost impossible to build the 1,000 hours during the four years , even if you did front load the program. It isn’t a reg that prevents this, it is practicality.
You are right, there are bachelors of aviation maintenance, I cannot imagine those degrees being well respected when applying to the majors and furthermore, they would not lead to a reduction in the 1,500 hour requirement.
Chris
As long as the program is an authorized program by the FAA then yes it will count towards you only needing 1000 hours. Second day it takes you 250 to get all your raising to commercial then and other 30 for your cfi/ii and mei. All you will need is 720hrs to move to airlines assuming your over 21 and all the other boxes have been checked for ATP-r. That’s 60 hours a month. Again hypothetical here Say you get all your rating with one year left in your degree and just instruct one student at a time for a year flying 15 hours a month. That leaves you with only needing 540 hrs once you get your degree. If you work hard totally doable. Now if it takes you 2 years to clear 540hrs that’s your own fault. Should take only 9 months or less. Let all keep in mind this kid is still in high school. He’s got at least 5 years till he can get his atp. Why not go to a accredited and FAA authorized school get his degree and ratings and still be at the airlines in ~ 5 years. Better yet he can get all his basics knocked out while still in high school and drying the summer and get there even sooner.
And FYI Chris you said it would take 6 years to get through a college aviation program. “that will take at least 5-6 years going through an aviation college”
Grant,
I’m not going to debate and nitpik this apart. The college route is definitely an option but if we’re strictly talking time a Part 141 program will not allow you to “front load”. Check them out, they generally are 2yrs at a min for the flight training.
Peace out.
Adam
Grant,
You need to read my quote in its entirety, I said that it would take 5-6 years to get to 1,000 hours by going the aviation college route. You are right in that it needs to be an FAA approved program to meet the 1,000 rule, buyer beware though as schools like Liberty University’s maintenance program do not qualify, whereas Embry Riddle’s do.
Nobody wants a CFI that only flies 15 hours (or even 50) a month and almost nobody is going to want a CFI that is balancing a college course load and the demands of being a CFI. When I first started flying I had a CFI that was only available at certain times, I fired him a month later and moved onto one that was available everyday. I am not saying it isn’t possible to be in college and instruct, just saying that I sure as heck would not want that person to be my CFI and it is a lot harder than you think it is.
You have been on this website for months pointing out alternatives to ATP, which you are of course free to do as we always encourage discussion. I would point this out though, you are giving out career and life advice without even having even a PPL yourself, let alone any sort of career in the industry. Contrast this to myself, Adam and Tory who have been with the airlines for a combined 27 years. I am a Captain at a major airline and managed to get hired at a major at the age of 26, I know what I am talking about when it comes to this career and the best way to position one’s self. Adam has been on the hiring board of two airlines and landed his absolute dream airline job, he knows what he is talking about. Tory recently went through flight training, got the airline job he wanted, and is constantly exposed to pilots that are just joining the industry, he knows what he is talking about. So while I appreciate that you have ways that you think are better, I would encourage you to listen to those who have gone before you and been successful, you might just learn something.
Chris
I think I’ll chime in a little as this is a very similar situation to my own. First and foremost Chris and Adam were very much a part of my choosing to attend ATP which I’ll be starting with my insturment for the ATP career course on the 11th.
That being said, let me enlighten you as to why this became. Upon deciding that I wanted to leave the military service I decided I wanted to be an airline pilot. I also found out that the sooner you begin flying the better as seniority is everything in the airlines.
Being a veteran I have th GI Bill which would cover 100% of my college and training at a Part 141 college. That’s fine and dandy except as these fine gentleman have said that’s at least a 5-6 year investment of time. Being that I’m a husband and a father I don’t have that kind of time between income and training. I chose to attend ATP even though it required me to get a loan which is negligible with the potential earnings of an airline pilot.
Before I got out of the military I took th advice of Chris, Adam, and ATP school to complete my PPL and 80 hours so that I could start ATP career course at the instrument. With 6 months of training, I estimate I should be at my 1500 minimums is less than 2 years. By the time I would finish a Part 141 school, I’ll already have a couple years at an airline as opposed to just starting.
As for an aviation degree. I’m not a fan. It’s a waste of time in my opinion and a made up degree for a college to gouge people with insane costs for completion. Not to mention if for some reason you were to lose your medical and no longer be a pilot you’re out that huge expense and have a degree that’s worthless. This is coming from a guy who could get the degree free. I will be completing my bachelors while I’m at the regionals. I’m going to use my GI Bill for a degree I can fall back on if the airline pilot career ever fell through.
That’s my two cents. Take it for what it’s worth. However, ATP is a great way to get the training out of the way!
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