Today ATP announced a new partnership with Frontier Airlines to allow select pilots to transition straight from CFI to being a pilot with Frontier Airlines. This is a great opportunity to skip right past the regionals and begin your career as an airline pilot with a major airline.
Click on this link for details: Frontier Airlines / ATP Flight School
Full press release: Frontier Airlines Forms Pilot Pathway with ATP Flight School / ATP Flight School
Frontier was involved in a serious pilot strike fairly recently and there were widespread complaints about pilots being paid well below market, abuse by management, and lack of hours and advancement. Has Frontier addressed this with ATP in their recruitment and have they shown that things have changed in the 2-3 years since the strikes?
I know ATP graduated many Frontier pilots. Are any in the forum to discuss what their experience has been (in private, if necessary)?
Frontier pilots never struck. They voted that they were willing to do so, but never did. They did hold informational picketing. In 2019, they agreed to a 53% pay increase, amongst other improvements in their contract.
Scott,
As Chris said, the Frontier pilots never went on strike (btw strikes are always serious). As a rule when it comes contract negotiation time, there’s ALWAYS widespread complaints by pilots (actually there’s always complaints by pilots regardless) just as there is at every airline in the country. Not sure why you think this is something Frontier needs to address with ATP? ATP trains pilots for a career in the airlines. If an airline wants to start a partnership with ATP that’s always beneficial to the students. It’s up to the individual student to determine if Frontier is a good choice or not but options are always a good thing.
Adam
I am a current Frontier pilot and happy to answer any questions you guys may have about the airline. I do not know anything about the ATP pathway program other than what has been released publicly.
Ray,
Thanks for offering your insight. How long have you been with Frontier? What path did you take to get hired (previous experience, hours, etc.)? Do you get to travel throughout their route map or is it limited to a few cities on a rotation? COVID aside, how many hours do you get to fly each month? Every employer has their ups and downs, so… if a dear friend asked you, would you recommend that they apply to Frontier in terms of quality of life at work? What equipment do you fly? Are the aircraft well-maintained?
Again, thanks for taking the time to give us your insight.
Scott
Sure thing Scott. I’ve been with Frontier a little over 4 years now. I commuted to and was based in DEN for the first year, but have been living/based in MCO for the last 3. I trained at a similar type of school to ATP but it was in the UK. I did CFI/charter/contract pilot work for my first 3 years as a pro pilot then went to a regional. I came to Frontier with about 4000 hours of total time, 1600ish turbine PIC and a few check marks like sim instructor / check airman and APD.
I have been to the great majority of cities Frontier flies too…partly because I’ve been based in two different places. Each base has more flying to a particular region than others but there’s a good mix at all bases. If you have a real hankering to fly something different you can always pick up open time in another base. As a senior First Officer based in MCO, I prefer out-and-back 1 day trips, so that usually means running up and down the eastern seaboard or into the midwest. Anything further west than about DEN turns into a two day trip, but those kinds of trips definitely exist out of MCO. I actually used to love flying a 2 day trip that overnighted in SAN for 24 hours. We are just starting to expand into the Carribean and Central America, mostly out of our MIA base. We’re looking to add 2-3 new bases over the coming 1-2 years.
Pre-COVID, on an annual basis, I was averaging around 95 hours of credit a month which equated to around 55 block hours. Most months the block hours were probably higher, but vacation months skewed the credit to block hour ratio. If I were to guess I’d say around 65-70 hours of block a month for a normal flying month with around 85 hours of credit.
As far as recommending Frontier, I would absolutely recommend it on the basis of quality of life at work. As a lineholder I’ve averaged 15-16 days off a month pretty consistently. These days on the senior FO side, I’m disappointed with anything less than 17 and have seen 18-19 days off pretty regularly. Most airlines have the ability to add/drop/swap their flying with an open time pot written into their contracts. Learning from friends at the legacies at a similar level of relative seniority to me (UAL/AA in particular), we have an easier time of actually doing it with our work rules. Most pilots have been able to manipulate most, if not all of their schedule most months of the year. Again, this is all pre-COVID / in a “normal” year. It’s due to the quality of life I’ve enjoyed at Frontier that I have ceased looking to move to a legacy carrier. The only thing I’m really giving up is the possibility of long haul widebody flying, but I think the novelty would wear off pretty quickly. The multiple redeye transcons I’ve flown over the last several years pretty much sealed that up. Growth is never a guarantee but we’re doing well so far and if it continues as planned, financially I won’t be behind a similar age/seniority pilot at a legacy at retirement.
We only have one fleet type, the A320 series. We have a handful of A319s but they are on their way out the door. The rest are A320NEO and A321-200 aircraft. We have around 104 aircraft right now with 134 aircraft on order for delivery over the next several years. Don’t quote me on the exact timing but around 2022-2023 timeframe we will start getting the A321NEO and A321XLR.
The great majority of our aircraft are less than 5 years old, so maintenance isn’t a huge headache, but I’ve been pleased with our maintenance program and it continues to get better over time as we transition from a small to a larger airline. The company is investing in infrastructure pretty generously these days, so it’s exciting to see.
Best of luck in your career path!
Ray,
You mention both credit hours and block hours. My question is, what is the difference between credit and block hours? Also, why are their more credit hours than block hours? Thanks.
Steven
Great question Steven… Block hours are actual “flight time”, generally recorded from release of the parking brake on pushback to opening of the main cabin door on arrival.
Credit hours represent how many hours of pay you will receive. There are times when you will be paid when you’re not accruing any block hours such as vacation, sick, training, etc. On top of that, various airlines have additional pay built into picking up flying over and above your monthly schedule, as well as trip and duty “rig”, minimum pay per day/duty period etc etc.
All of these ways of earning pay credit over and above block hours is called “soft pay” in the industry. Since we’re legally limited as to how many block hours we can accrue in a day/month/year, it’s helpful for candidates to know what the opportunities are to get pay credit over and above block hours at the various airlines they would like to work at, so we often refer to “soft time opportunities” or “credit to block ratio”.
You’ll find the scheduling and pay side of airline flying to be vastly more complicated than the actual flying itself!
Ray,
Thanks! This really clears everything up! Blue skies to you!
Steven
Hey Chris,
Do you know anything about this? It says in partnership with ATP but I’m unsure if it’s just the same program as ATP already has or something different?
Ben
Ben,
This is the same program ATP has now with Frontier. It has been expanded to 35 people per month, which is significant.
Chris
Chris,
I actually was doing a little more digging on Frontier’s website and I think they might have added a little more filling to the pie, from what I can tell.
I could be wrong but I don’t remember anything about a $500 monthly stipend during training and other stuff like that.
I also read “Successful graduates of ATP flight school who meet our minimum qualifications are guaranteed placement in the next available Frontier First Officer training class upon graduation.”
I’m unsure what “successful” means in their book, if beyond getting all the necessary type ratings and attaining 1500 hours, but “guaranteed” is an interesting wording.
My only concern is the agreement you would be required to sign. This is definitely an exciting opportunity, regardless!
Ben
Ben,
Thank you for this! I’m looking to go into this industry for my career and this is a potential option for me.
Jairo
Ben,
In my experience successful means a) minimum checkride busts, b) no accidents or incidents and c) being a “good student” (ie, punctual, good attendance, etc etc).
This is an extraordinary opportunity. You can’t blame them if they don’t want problem children.
Adam
Thanks for the heads up! This is something I would very much be interested in and will be looking into in more detail (though a cursory glance does look promising). Still working on getting the 1st class medical.