Hi everyone. I just graduated the ACPP in September 2023. My initial plan was to sign with a cadet program while working at ATP, but during my last week of the program, ATP hired 6 new CFIs at our location and essentially kicked me out of a job. I can’t relocate at the moment, we have a newborn baby at home. I had made it very clear to ATP throughout my entire training that I needed a CFI spot at my training location if I was going to work for them and they didn’t give me that in the end, even though they had more or less promised me the spot.
So now I’m looking for a cadet program to sign, but all of the ones that ATP shows on their website require that you work at ATP to be eligible. Aviate, Envoy, Endeavor STEP, and many others are not options for me anymore since I’m teaching at another school. Does anyone have any recommendations for programs that don’t require working at ATP to get on the roster for a regional? Thanks everyone!
At no point does ATP promise a job, or a specific location, to anybody, they make that very clear. They staff the company as they need to to meet the needs of incoming students. Would you have preferred that somebody else that wanted your location and had finished before you was denied that location so you could get that spot?
Just to set the correct expectations, the airlines also will not make special exceptions for bases based on your perceived “need”. They staff strictly by company need and seniority.
It’s unfortunate you didn’t get the location you wanted, but in the 20yrs I’ve been working with ATP, I have never heard of them ever promising anyone a instructor location. Ever.
That aside the info on the ATP there may most definitely be cadet programs available but you’ll need to contact them directly. A simple Google search will do the trick.
There are cadet programs out there that don’t require you to instructor or fly for a specific company, i.e., Piedmont being one of them. Congrats on the newborn and family, especially this time of the year.
Job locations aren’t promised anywhere, everything in the airline and flying industry is based on seniority, it sucks that you didn’t get what you expected, but it’s reality. As the others mention, ATP does not promise job offers nor locations because things can change - overnight even. ATP wants to ensure that student instruction is being handled with quality and standards, not just quantity, so ensuring that the ratio of students to instructors is important in ensuring that things are covered.
Is ATP the only place you would instruct? Are there other flight schools or gigs surrounding you that you could start out at?
I’ll add here since I was in a similar position two years ago, when I finished the program. I finished the program, still during COVID, and there was a pretty major backlog for instructor positions. I obviously wanted to stay at the location I trained at as well, and felt that I worked hard enough and did well enough to earn a position there. However, once they opened up a website where you could see the positions available, I saw how far back I was for my location. Unfortunately (or fortunately) with aviation, everything is based on seniority, and in my situation and your situation, there were simply just people ahead of us who were going to be awarded the position first. I opted to pick the first location available, and it worked out great. I finished my hours much quicker than I would have at my home location. I understand that I’m in a more flexible position than you are, in terms of temporarily moving. But if you wanted to work for ATP and remain an option for their affiliated cadet programs, it might have been a necessary temporary sacrifice to help your career. You could have always transferred back if they had a position open up. Just remember that once you get to the airlines, there are no promises of bases either. You might pick an airline that has a home base, but be ready to be awarded any of them. I know for a fact that airlines, in your interviews, won’t want to hear that you are only wanting to work for them for a specific base.
For cadet programs, while many of them are affiliated with ATP, many are also connected with other flight schools and part 141 university programs. The Envoy one, for example, has a big list of partner schools you can instruct with, not just ATP. Out of the 60 cadets in my class, maybe 10-15 were from ATP. The rest were from other schools. Do some research on the programs you are interested in and you’ll probably find a list of schools you can instruct at while being in their cadet program.
I’ve actually started working as a CFI at another school that pays much better than ATP does. I’m not quite at 500 TT yet for Piedmont but thank you for the recommendation! I’ll be approaching its minimum shortly.
Not to poke the bear, while the pay may “seem better,” I bet there’s a lot of differences in incentives and programs (like you’re asking) compared to ATP. I find it surprisingly interesting how many grads want to speak negative about ATP’s pay with instructors. There are always ways to earn more. You just have to put in the work, time and dedication.
Here’s what I gather from your statement and now seeing the picture. You wanted a position at your choice of location, didn’t get offered it, found “better pay,” but does not have the same opportunities as if you had instructed at ATP.
You don’t have to choose ATP to work for. You have a choice in where you take your ratings. But now isn’t the time to be chasing pay. The most important thing is quality of aircraft you’re flying (aka safe), how much you’ll be flying and the opportunities for future employment beyond 1500 hours.
