Feasibility of a Class 1 medical after a previous denial

Airline Pilot Questions & Answers
1

Hi everyone, first time poster. I found this message board this morning and spent most of the day at work reading and lurking. Some amazing information on here, but not much that would apply to my case.

Ive been an aviation enthusiast since probably 12 years old when i first tried microsoft combat flight simulator. Instantly got hooked, and quickly realized that flying is what I want to do with my life. My parents got me a few flying lessons in high school, it was amazing, but they couldn’t afford to pay for it, and until I graduated college and got a good paying job, I couldn’t afford it either, so flying got shelved til sometime in 2017.

Not knowing the process (and in part my CFI or the flight school not mentioning it), I didn’t sign up for my medical till my CFI told me to come back with a class 3 and he’d send me up to solo. This was in my late 20s, and I have an imperfect driving record from the dumb shit I did in my early 20s.

Back in 2012, I got caught with a gram of weed and a bowl. Got charged with possession and paraphernalia which got dismissed in court after I did a weekend weed class. Then in 2013, I got busted again driving high. Got charged with an OVI, lost my license for 6 months, did a weekend DUI class and that got lowered down to reck opp 2.

When i filled out the online form for the medical and disclosed that I’ve been arrested in the last 10 years. Medically, I passed with flying colors, but because of my record, my AME deferred me to Oklahoma. Over the next 6 months, I rounded up arrest and court records (what a chore that was), did 3 of those 48hr notice drug tests (always the very next day), wrote multiple letters telling them that I don’t smoke weed anymore, haven’t since 2015, I’ve never had a drug addiction problem, never did any real drugs, just smoked weed, that I basically did the same dumb shit everyone in their early 20s does, and I got caught. After a ton of correspondence back and forth, they finally denied me for substance abuse.

Imaginably that was pretty devastating. Now with a denied medical, I couldn’t even get go the light sport route, let alone a PPL, and back then, a denied medical was a guaranteed auto DQ for the airlines. Without hope for airlines, I thought back then, that if I still want to fly and can afford a PPL when 10 years runs out, I’d go for it. But covid changed all that and gave me, and tons of other people with less than perfect records a glimpse of hope.

So my main question, is what is the possibility of getting a class 1 medical. My 10 years since my arrest runs out in may of this year, so when I fill out the online form, ill be able to check “no” in the “have you been arrested in the last 10 years”. Would my AME look up my previous denial and refer me to Oklahoma again just because of that? If I get deferred, will it be another 6 months nightmare that will once again result in a denial, even thought my record since then has been perfect? Would my previous record even get brought up this time around since it will be over 10 years ago? By 10 years, do they mean 10 years since handcuffs and back of the cop car, or 10 years since the end of resulting court proceedings?

I intend on scheduling a consultation with my AME before officially going for my medical. But in a hypothetical scenario, what if I go in for a consultation and tell him about my record, how he deferred me 5 years ago, and all that, and from being reminded about it, he would defer me again, whereas if he didn’t remember from 5 years ago, he would otherwise pass me. I’m not trying to lie or scheme him into not realizing I have a record from a while ago (afterall, this would only be applicable if he didn’t look me up), but to avoid something like “hey, you’re the guy that was just here talking about a medical after a weed charge, I remember you, I’m deferring you”

And assuming I do get a class 1, how bad would a 10+ year old weed record look for the airlines? Automatic DQ or still a chance? I’m hearing “if you have 1500 hours and a pulse, we want to talk to you”, so they sound desperate.

Since the 2013 driving stoned OVI, my record has been squeaky clean. Haven’t been pulled over since, not arrested since, not even a parking ticket since then. I don’t smoke weed anymore, stopped smoking early 2015 to be clean for my first job out of college and never restarted. I don’t do any drugs. Cutting back on smoking cigarettes intending to quit by spring. I enjoy a few cold ones with the buddies over a round of golf or while wrenching or watching a game, but I’m definitely not an alcoholic or have a drinking problem. Never lost a job or have gotten in trouble at work or home because of drinking so there’s no issue there. Just the stupid weed thing from 2012 and 2013

Sorry for the long post, but with Covid potentially giving me a second chance to follow my biggest dream, I wanted to set the stage right for you guys and to make sure I get all my ducks in a row this time around

Looking forward to hearing from you guys.
Thanks!
-Roman

TLDR: holy hell thats a long post. Got busted for marijuana in 2012 and 2013. Got denied a medical in 2018 for substance abuse. Been squeaky clean since 2013. Any change I could get a class 1, now thats its been 10 years?

2

Roman,

I have no idea. You will need to consult with a HIMS AME.

Chris

3

Roman,

I would consult with an Aviation attorney who specializes in medical issues.

Chris F

4

Roman,

As the others have said you need to consult with an AME. Even if you answer no to the 10yr question, it’s 2023 and Google knows my deepest thoughts, do you really not believe the FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION doesn’t knows how you answered the last time?

That all said you should be fine. That is until you go for your first pilot interview and respond as you did above. No not everyone on their 20s smoked weed and did stupid things and you believing that’s an excuse it’s probably your biggest obstacle.

Adam

5

Roman,

We’re just pilots here. We can’t comment on how the FAA will view your case. But I’m with Adam on this, best that you just be honest about it all and hope the 10 year gap helps you this time around. As soon as the AME looks you up, the denial will be common knowledge. I’d be mentally prepared to go through all that again with a HIMS AME and be surprised if you don’t.

The airlines want to hire responsible, reliable, experienced aviation professionals that can be accountable for their actions. Any kind of substance abuse is already a red flag not only for getting a medical but for getting hired. It’s going to be an uphill battle wherever you go.

Hannah

6

Roman,

Reaching out to an AME is your first stop in this journey. We are not legal representatives and AMEs of the aviation world therefore we can’t tell you the answers - only guide you to the right people that can. See below to find the nearest AME to you, you should check with them to consult before submitting an application:

Brady

7

Hi guys

My AME who previously deferred me to Oklahoma is a HIMS AME, so I’m gonna book a visit with him to see what he thinks. I hope 10 years between now and last time I got busted has some positive effect on my medical. I dont know what they could possibly bust me for this time around

thank you for your help

9

Roman,

Please keep us update-to-date on everything.

Brady

10

Your above quotes and history are exactly what they can deny you a medical for. The ten years does not matter. You have a history of illegal drug abuse and the FAA will look at you very hard before issuing a medical.

Chris

11

I found my personal statement to the FAA from 2017, read thru it and damn, I got a pretty tall mountain to climb. I wrote some things in there that at 28 years old didn’t even register as portraying a party lifestyle in my early 20s but now at 34yo definitely raise some red flags, and imagining some FAA examiner reading it, I could definitely see him/her thinking “wow, does this kid really think this is ok?” and tossing the application. Needless to say, If I were writing my personal statement knowing what I know now, I definitely would’ve written it different.

So I’m fully expecting to get deferred to Oklahoma again, and the months of back and forth paperwork, statements and 48hr notice drug tests. And if it gets denied again, which will be a certain end to any potential flying career, at least I’ll know that I did it all to myself, and decisions I made in the past came back to haunt me. While I got off with nothing more than a few slaps on the wrist back then, consequences of what I did incurred a debt that got collected once in 2017-18, and could get collected again this time around. At least it was all self inflicted. In the years since, I’ve read horror stories of stuff like kids getting misdiagnosed with ADD and ADHD in early childhood just for being normal hyper children and getting put on adderall or ritalin, and having that in their medical history being an auto disqualifier for a medical later on in life. Something they had no control over, something their parents did, that ended any hopes of flying for the kids before they even had them. That would really suck.

I used to think that its BS that FAA calls it a “medical” but also hides a background check and a personality test in with it, like a sleazy government 3 letter agency where your fate will be subjectively decided by some individual who doesn’t know you one bit besides for some words on paper, an application and some test results. I realized lately how ridiculous that thought is, because even if they did split it up into medical and background, Id pass medical but fail background and be right where I am now. And anything involving other people in your life, like job interviews, friendships, relationships, are all based on subjectivity of how those people feel about you and how you feel about them, not some set in stone checklist of traits and qualities. While I wish there would be more objectivity built into the process, its hypocritical of me to expect FAA to not be subjective about my history when I certainly have people in my life who I dislike or don’t trust for no particular reason, I just don’t.

Either way, I’ll just have to see what my AME thinks of my chances this time around