Post Program Plans?

Student Experiences
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I haven’t posted on here since I enquired about the program 2 years ago, but as of 2/25 I’ve completed all of my ratings for the airline career pilot program! I had a great experience with ATP and everyone at the Concord, NC location, but now I am looking to what is next in my career. I feel I did well in the program, 7/7 on checkrides, and I hope that I conveyed myself well enough to warrant a job instructing at ATP. I was told a couple of weeks back, before my CFII and MEI checkrides, as well as with my TSS following my MEI checkride, that I would be offered a job. However, I am aware that the timeline and location options are uncertain due to COVID. I’ve kept up to date with this forum and I’m expecting at least a couple months of waiting.

For those who have completed the program in the past few months, what is the process/ expected wait time for a job offer? I understand that I may have to wait, and certainly will, for an opportunity to work for ATP instructing, but in the time until then, does anyone have some advice for some next steps? I am planning on completing my AGI and IGI in the next few weeks, but should I look for opportunities elsewhere instructing or other low hour jobs? Or perhaps completing the ATP-CTP course? Unfortunately job opportunities look few and far between at the moment, but I’d be willing to consider any options that will keep me flying until a position at ATP becomes available. Has anyone had any success with other opportunities outside of ATP recently? It seems as though entry level jobs that are available are asking for more hours than I have at the moment.

Any advice for jobs, resume builders, or similar experiences would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you in advance!

Roscoe

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Roscoe,

Congrats on completing the program! You can’t all for better than 7/7 on your rides. We all know that’s not an easy task.

It’s only been a few days but I’m certain ATP will give you some idea of a time frame for an instructor position. I don’t know your circumstances but if you’re able, I’d encourage you to take the first available location if those you desire are far off. While we seem to be entering recovery mode across the country, low time jobs are definitely at a premium and tough to find. That said if it seems like there will be a lengthy delay I would encourage to keep looking. These are perishable skills and you don’t want to get too far from flying. The AGI and IGI are a good idea. Don’t forget afterwards to take them to your local FSDO and get yourself a Ground Instructor certificate (easiest you’ll ever earn). It’s also i nice resume builder.

I’m sure others will chime in. As always keep us posted on your progress and again Congrats!

Adam

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3-5month backlog was mentioned in other threads or on the ATP alumni page.

Congratulations on passing 7/7. No easy feat.
Key is to stay flying.
Chris F

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Roscoe,

Congrats on the 7/7 100% pass rate, that has to be a great feeling of accomplishment.

Regarding the instructor portion of your question, I was graduated in January, received an email from the hiring department asking for my preference of locations; they give three (3) slots. Be aware that if you want a particular location it may take some time for a position to open up.

I would plan on getting your AGI/IGI out of the way, I wish I did, my schedule is tied up right now, so that will wait until I’m a little bit settled come May. What I did during my time off was hang out at my local airport’s FBO, networking and meeting pilots. I am flying around in a Mooney/Skyhawk/Cherokee/Cirrus while awaiting my indoc date for instructing…this has kept my brain sharp and material fresh.

If you have not already, join the ATP Alumni forum.

Brady

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Roscoe!
Congrats! I’m so proud of you. Seems like yesterday I was doing your solo eval. You’ve worked so hard and been a top performer since your private stage. I share Mary’s sentiment and I’m sure the other instructors still there, you will get a job offer. Not an if, just a when. You’ve earned it.
If you’re flexible, take first available location to get flying. If not, check in with Race City Flight ops (the lake Norman airport) and see if you can get flying there. I taught weekend grounds sessions and did some flying there while I waited for ATP. There are also Concord ATP alum at Monroe, Winston and Gastonia so I’d explore there and see what you can find!

-Hannah

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Hannah,

First off, thank you! It does not seem like long ago that we flew together in the fall. I have built off of our flying experiences and mentioned them often during the CFI phase, including during my most recent instructor checkrides. I hope that I can implement some of those learning experiences once I begin instructing myself. Secondly, I want to congratulate you on your part 135 job, and I hope that it is treating you well! I will undoubtedly take the first available location that ATP offers me, but I do hope that I end up back in Concord. I think that my conversations with Mary and the lead instructors are a good sign that they would like to have me back. In the meantime, I will definitely look into those locations that you mentioned around the Charlotte area. I assume it won’t hurt my chances with ATP if I work temporarily somewhere else?

I appreciate the help and I wish you best of luck with your new job!

Roscoe

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Brady,

Thank you! I appreciate the insight on the hiring process. I’m assuming that the timeline for starting is dependent on the location that you choose? Did you choose first available or a specific location, because I’d prefer to stay at my local location if the timeline isn’t insane. I’m also curious in hearing how you’ve managed to get experience flying in different aircraft. I’d love to have some of those experiences myself, but my aviation networking doesn’t expand much outside of ATP and rentals for aircraft are fairly expensive with no income. Unfortunately, I have no close friends or family in aviation. Also, I will definitely get started on my AGI/IGI; our DPE here in charlotte mentioned that a lot of instructors are unable or just never complete them once they start instructing.

I appreciate the help,

Thanks!

Roscoe

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Chris F,

Thanks! I have seen that there is a 3-5 month wait just based on listening to the instructors here in Charlotte and hearing peoples experiences on this forum. I’m hoping to figure something out in these next few months so that I can stay flying! I’m only 2 days past on finishing the program and I already miss it!

Roscoe

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Adam,

Thank you! I appreciate the help, and I’ll definitely be patient on waiting to hear what ATP would like to offer me moving forward. Any offer would be fantastic and I’ll definitely take the opportunity. It does seem as though low time jobs are tough to find, but if I’m told there is a delay I’ll keep looking for any opportunities available. In the meantime, I’ll be sure to get my ground instructor certificate after my AGI/IGI.

I’ll be sure to keep you all updated on my experience and progress!

Thanks,

Roscoe

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Roscoe,

Congratulations on finishing the program and having a perfect pass rate! Nice work. I am not aware of any official timeframes, but I suspect you will hear something soon.

Thank you for coming back to the forum to let us know how the program went!

Chris

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Roscoe,

I would agree that the timeline is dependent on the locations that have been chosen and the demand for instructors. In today’s age, there is an extreme supply of instructors, but the demand has paused (due to covid). I chose my first location being my training center (TTN), the second was nearby (MMU), and thirdly I put the first available/first come. When I received the phone call informing me that I was up next for an indoc date, I could not believe it, I was speechless, I thought I had months to wait; timing is everything.

I too do not have anyone in the family that is involved with aviation. All of this flying experience that I am getting is from hanging out at my local airport’s FBO, having coffee with other pilots in the lounge, bantering about anything and everything. In 2020 when I was filling up the plane I fly when home, I met two pilots (the Mooney and Skyhawk owner from above) at the fuel pump. The Mooney owner said to the other, “you know who he reminds me of, this YouTuber we just met at Sun 'N Fun - Jason Schappert (MzeroA).” As corky as this sounds, this was an icebreaker to what I now call two of my really good friends and aviator buddies. The three of us just got together to do a $100 hamburger flight and some unpublished hold/IFR work. I spent a lot of time during my program in the FBO just talking to mechanics and pilots, whether they were charter or corporate fliers, getting any information I could about the industries they work in.

Getting those AGI/IGI and calling the local FSDO to get the certificates is great to have on a resume, it shows you’re willing to continue learning and putting forth the work.

Brady

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Roscoe,
Thank you! I love my job. Staring down the barrel of 1200-some hours to complete as an instructor before the regionals/135 seems daunting but it will go by faster than you think! Please check out those locations. I’ll do some research as well and make a few phone calls recommending you if you’d like! ATP would love nothing more for you to continue flying and instructing, staying current, while you wait for an Indoc date.

-Hannah

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Congratulations Roscoe! I just finished the program in Hartford CT at the end of November and I immediately applied to every local flight school within driving distance. I got an instructor position nearby and so far have about 55 hours of instruction. It took a few weeks to get the email from ATP to select my preferred locations, and since I already have another job I only selected Hartford. I haven’t heard anything from ATP since then yet. I know Hartford is a very small location so that may be part of the reason. I haven’t followed up with ATP either since I’m thinking I’ll just stay at the other school as things are going well there.

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Hi Roscoe,

Congratulations on completing the Airline Career Pilot Program. You will be hearing from your Training Support Manager this week in regards to the job offer and moving forward!

As many have already mentioned, please make sure you join the ATP Alumni Association.

Addison

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Hannah,

Thank you! 1200 hours seems like a lot at the moment, but I’m ready and excited to start instructing. I’ve been looking at all of those flight schools around the Charlotte area in anticipation that I’ll have to wait for an opportunity at ATP. Any help or recommendations would be awesome, if you have the time!

Thanks!

Roscoe

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Jacob,

Thanks for the insight! I’ve read a few people’s experiences post graduation recently and it seems like most end up at other flight schools while they wait for ATP. When you applied to instruct at other flight schools did they have open positions or did you just contact them and enquire about the possibility of working there? Seems like most schools aren’t actively looking for instructors, but I guess it can’t hurt to ask. I’m glad that things are going well instructing at the other school!

Thanks,

Roscoe

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Addison,

Thank you! I’ll keep a look out for any calls or emails about opportunities in the coming weeks.

Roscoe

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Hi Roscoe,

The flight school that I ended up getting a job with did have a job posting on indeed.com. I sent emails to a handful of others that didn’t have postings and either didn’t get a response or got a response that they weren’t in need of any instructor at the moment.

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Hey everyone!

I just thought that I would post an update and hear if anyone has any opinions for me moving forward.

These past few months have been a long wait, to say the least. About 3-4 weeks post program I got a call from the regional training support manager congratulating me on completing the program, with no checkride failures, and they offered me an instructor position with ATP. I made my location selections and have been waiting for the call since. In the meantime, I’ve worked on my AGI and IGI exams, and I initially began applying to non-instructing jobs. I’ve been flying as often as I can, maybe once or twice every couple of weeks, just to keep proficient. It’s not as much as I’d like, but it’s enough to keep me comfortable. But as the weeks went by, I heard back from almost none of the jobs I applied for, and received no update on my status with ATP. I can’t say I’m surprised, I was either barely qualified or under the hours for most of the positions. So I began to look at perhaps instructing at other schools in my area, either part time while I waited or long term if the right position was available. I called to inquire and even took some flights at some of these flight schools just to get my foot in the door. But it appears that, similar to ATP, there is either a backlog of instructors or they just simply aren’t looking for new instructors. To summarize, most flight schools in my area are either not hiring, or are looking for experienced instructors who will commit to them. So for the past few months, I’ve waited. I understand the value of an ATP job and the connections they have, so I was always willing to risk delaying my journey for the best instructing experience I could get.

To cut a long story short, today ATP advised us of a new page that allows us to see our position in line for an instructor position. I logged in right away to see that my first choice had me in 19th. 19th, I don’t know what to say or think honestly, I know that some people have waited up to 6+ months, but 19th for a location that currently has 9 instructors is unsettling. My second choice has me at around 15th, and my third choice was ‘first available’ which still has me at around 9-10 for most locations. I’m not entirely sure how the site calculates your position, it seems to have no weighting on what people selected as their first, second, or third choice. It also appears that if any of your choices have ‘first available’ listed, you have a spot in line for every location. So there is the possibility that the positions in line are inflated. Essentially people in front of me might not have selected my location, but are in line anyways from ‘first available’? Again I could be wrong, I’m just trying to justify how others have waited 3-6 months with this number of applicants. If I’m actually 19th, it could be easily a year or more. To say this news is disheartening is an understatement. I’m a bit lost at the moment. I have been hesitant to ‘all in’ commit for any job I can get my hands on, in anticipation that a very good job offer is waiting in my back pocket. I tried my best during my time as a student to show that I could be a good instructor for ATP, and I thought my performance might shorten my wait or increase my chances of staying at home, but maybe not. It appears the site updates every night, and as everyone else has had the opportunity to see and change their selections, there is the possibility of some movement. Until I wait for a few days or a week or more, I won’t have an idea how the positions move.

Essentially, I’m reaching out on here to see if anyone had anything they could add or perhaps some advice for me moving forward. I know there is a lot more I could have done post program to secure a job elsewhere, but I never realized I was this far back from a position. Over these last few months, my eagerness and excitement for teaching has increased drastically, but this throws a wrench in my plans. This really is the first time in my 22 years that I have no clear path moving forward. Additionally, if anyone else is in line for a position, I’d love to hear your thoughts and your position. I don’t really have an idea what the position means in comparison to other students also waiting.

I appreciate everyone for taking the time to read my long post and I’m looking forward to hearing everyone’s thoughts and opinions!

Thanks,

Roscoe

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Roscoe,

From time to time I’m accused of being harsh or unsympathetic so I actually took some time to reflect before responding. That said I really can’t get past your statement “Over these last few months, my eagerness and excitement for teaching has increased drastically, but this throws a wrench in my plans”. While I do understand your frustration, the fact is you’ve been waiting 3mos for a call, while the industry is recovering from literally the biggest wrench it’s seen ever in history. If this has truly thrown a wrench in your plans I’m curious what you would have done if your were one of the pilots affected by your airline folding, being furloughed, displaced or downgraded? Further this country experienced the highest rate of unemployment since they’ve been keeping records. Tens of thousands lost their businesses forever and 600,000 people died. I’m really sorry Roscoe but it’s time for a little perspective.

On a positive as you pointed out you’re counted as “first available” on a number of lists as are others so you’re probably not really 19th. There’s also people who found other jobs who haven’t taken their names off the list are waiting to see. Finally not everyone who says “first available” really means it and if you do you may find yourself moving ahead quicker than others who don’t. Thinking you’d move ahead of others because you did well was also a good lesson. First of all do you believe you’re the only ATP student who did? Further this will become far more apparent when you do make it to the airlines. When we say seniority is everything that’s not a joke. You could be the next Yeager or an F22 jock with genius level understanding and the work ethic of a machine. If you’re hired after me you’re junior to me and always will be. Same here.

My advice is first to relax. Things are far from dire. The industry is recovering faster than anticipated and there will be more and more movement. If I were you I’d be pounding the tarmac. The guy who said no yesterday might say yes today. If something pans out take it. If/ when ATP calls weigh the options and choose which is best for you. While you may have had a clear path for the last 22yrs, chances are that path was not made by you for most of it. Now it is and you need to do the best you can with the cards you’ve been dealt. It may not seem like a great hand now but it’s far from being the worse.

Endeavor to persevere.

Adam

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