I have an important question. I just finished associates degree in business administration and i graduated from my community college . (2years) associate. Now what’s is my next step (first step to enroll with the aviation)? Take a loan first or i gotta do exams or any tests before going in the aviation. Please im still young and learning. I asked few pilots and they helped me a lot thanks to them very much. But now its very challenging since i finished college and i don’t to waste time at all. Im 20 years old looking for what’s the next step waiting for me.
Thank you for the help.
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Hassan,
The attached link will lead you through the process but let’s be clear on something. The Majors want a 4yr Bachelors degree so no, you’re not done (or at least shouldn’t be) with college.
Adam
But a lot of people enrolled with aviation either have associated degree and some don’t even have one, so what am i supposed to do in such case?
Hassan,
You’re right, and alot get stuck at a Regional or LCC and can never move on from there. As hiring shows a 4yr degree will become even more important.
You can either continue your education now or possibly online later but you will want that degree to be successful.
Adam
Can u explain a little more please. I’m new here in this field so im not sure about what everyone tells me . I asked here the same question before and that’s the answer i got(degree isn’t important anymore they are hiring everyone for the pilot job, it’s just as a backup incase you didn’t qualify for being a pilot)
I just finished the 2 years associate and i wanna know what is the 4 year degree (bachelors going to help me with if i do pilot) . Although pilot and business don’t meet together.
Thank you so much for the help.
Adam,
I agree with some of your points, but I disagree that getting a non-aviation degree will help with the majors at this point. There are about 5 or 6 regionals with flow-through agreements that have no extra interview or degree requirements for the majors and are all based on seniority. You could almost argue that you could save yourself 4 years of seniority by not going to college.
Tommy
Hassan,
I don’t know who told you a degree doesn’t matter but it sure wasn’t me (or any of the other mentors to my knowledge). Its simple, the Majors still list a 4yr degree as a “preferred” or “competitive” minimum and when the supply is high and they can pick and choose, those that can check the box saying they have one will ALWAYS get preference.
Adam
Tommy,
Disagree all you like and do as you want but the facts are the facts. The Majors all list a 4yr Bachelors as a “preferred” or “competitive” minimum. Hannah was hired by United 2yrs ago (at the height of the shortage), ask her how many people in her newhire class had degrees? I’m a check airman and the vast majority of newhires all have degrees. Sure there are flows but flows guarantee nothing. Majors only take a small percentage of their newhires from their partner Regionals. Why? Because if they take them all they cripple their partner. All the Majors (and many Regionals) have announced they’re done hiring for the year. Is this a crisis? No but that means the days of having 1500hrs and a pulse are gone for a while. You don’t think the Majors can take flows out of seniority? Read the fine print because there’s lots of it. Further let’s say you’re at a Regional with a flow but they’re not hiring (and aren’t planning) but another Major is. Your flow means nothing to them and they’re going to be looking for pilots who meet their “preferred” mins.
It’s really very simple. You can meet the bare mins, wave around your flow agreement and hope for the best OR you can do everything possible to make yourself as competitive as possible to ensure your success. Totally your choice.
Adam
Tommy,
You do realize that in a flow you might eventually get to the major airline without any other interview but in the meantime, people with degrees are getting hired everyday in front of you! The “seniority number” is only for internal benefits. You don’t get an actual pilot seniority number until you are sitting in new hire class day 1. So sure, you might make it there but look at these two different timelines:
Get a bachelors degree 4 years, ATP+1500 hours 2 years, regional 1 year, MAJOR… 3 years from starting to fly and 7 years total.
Compared to ATP+1500 hrs 2 years, regional for 5-7 years waiting on the flow… major in 9 years and have the potential to flow backwards back to the regionals.
Even the timeline doesn’t justify trying to cut corners and “hope for the best” when hiring was in full force. Now it’s slowing down meaning it’s getting more important to have that degree to be competitive in a saturated market.
Hannah
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Adam and Hannah,
Thank you for your reply’s and for explaining that. But I am curious on why the major airlines would care about a degree that is completely unrelated to aviation? I agree that with an aviation degree you stand out above everyone, but from what I’ve seen you recommend not getting an aviation degree on some posts. Looking at some regionals that get you guaranteed interviews regardless of degree, is there any reason that if I impressed them and was a great pilot they would look at my resume and say “he’s not qualified because he doesn’t have a useless degree unrelated to aviation”. I’ve talked to a few pilots from Europe who came to the U.S at 18-19 and went through training, regionals and got hired with no degree by 25 by United and Delta last year, and you see some major airline pilots saying that they would not go to college if they had to start over. That would be the ideal situation for me.
Personally as an entrepreneur I’m willing to take the bet of majors or not, as I would rather have the income in 2 vs 6 years and not go into even more debt from college. I would just have to bet on myself and hope the demand lowers in 6 years when I would be ready to move to the majors. Without going to college what path do you both think would be best to get to a major? Flow through or just guaranteed interviews?
Tommy
Answered above…
Adam
Hi Tommy,
I’m not officially a mentor here but I take great interest in the conversations on this forum, and I feel tempted to chime in from time-to-time when I think I might have something to offer.
It sounds like you want someone to validate your belief that a four-year college degree isn’t really worth it in your situation. You’ve now heard from multiple people with much more experience in this industry than either of us have, who have told you that this simply isn’t the case. A four-year degree will drastically increase your likelihood of some day ending up at a major airline. Period.
To give you some insight into why this is true, you need to know how major airline applications work. All the majors use a computerized system that automatically “scores” your application based on a variety of factors. Obviously things like flight time, type ratings, etc., are considered, but so is whether you have a college degree or not. I have a close connection who has been involved in hiring at United who told me recently that a college degree is in fact worth more “points” on an application than just about any single other factor. Why do they care about this “useless” degree? Doesn’t matter. Your chance of having your application selected from the stack of literally THOUSANDS of other qualified applicants is greatly enhanced by having one. That’s just a fact.
Now you keep mentioning the flow programs and seem to think these can guarantee you a path to the majors without needing a degree. This is dangerous thinking. First of all, the terms of those flows can and do change all the time. I have a friend who turned down job offers at other regionals to go to one with a flow, and then had his class date cancelled the week before it was scheduled to begin. (Think the other regionals welcomed him back?) There is always fine print, and nothing is guaranteed. Also, remember that any flow program will only set you up for ONE major, whereas you may find you’d be competitive at others much sooner. I know another person in a flow program who has been at the regional for SIX years and is still waiting to get the call from the major. Meanwhile he has watched lots of people outside the flow program come and go to various majors over the last few years.
The last few years had unprecedented hiring that has given people the impression that getting to a major is a formality. This was never true before, and it doesn’t seem to be true any longer. We appear to be headed back towards a time when you will need to be more qualified than the thousands of other applicants to get one of the coveted spots at a major airline. And this brings us back to the college degree.
Never forget that this is a very unpredictable profession and there are any number of things that could happen to derail your career. The next 9/11, a medical issue, etc. A college degree also provides some backup in case something were to happen, and if the degree is outside of aviation then that’s another level of insurance against the industry downturn scenario. I get it, you’re an entrepreneur, but have you considered something like a business degree? Degrees aren’t only a box to check on a major airline application, believe it or not they can actually contain coursework that has real-world value! Don’t assume you already know everything and wouldn’t benefit from additional knowledge.
If it’s the timeline you’re worried about, you can always consider getting a degree online while you work through your flying career. You’ll have plenty of days off and days sitting on reserve at the regionals when you could knockout some coursework on your way to a four-year degree. At the end of the day, where/how you get the degree won’t matter nearly as much as having one.
Good luck.
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Hi Noah,
Thank you for your response and explanation for everthing.
It’s more so I can make an informed decision if I want to pursue a career as a pilot with all facts and perspectives in hand.
As I am an enterpurnuer I have considered a business degree but have decided to go for real work experience instead. Aviation has always been a passion of mine and with all of the free time pilots have like you said in reserve and 10+ days off a month I knew it is a balance I could make with my ventures and an amazing job as pilot. The reason I did not go to college was so I can get a jump on my ventures but I am willing to hault that for the 2 years in flight shool.
The online degree while at the regionals may be the best of both worlds, and also gives me two years to see the direction of the degree requirements. Thank you for bringing that up.
What airline do you currently work for and what did your timeline look like?
Tommy
Tommy,
It’s great you’re doing your research before you jump in. You definitely don’t want to go too far down this path unless you’re SURE it’s what you want to do.
I always wanted to be a pilot but for whatever reason I became a high school teacher first. Did that for 10 years. During that time I chipped away at my private pilot’s license while I decided whether to make the jump. Started ATP in Summer 2021 with credit for private, finished my ratings in Spring 2022. Instructed at ATP until Fall 2023. Did the Spirit Airlines pathway program and started training there in October 2023. Got my type rating, flew a hundred or so hours on the Airbus, and now I’m facing a furlough and looking around for new jobs.
My experience is why I feel inclined to jump in and make sure people understand just how unpredictable this industry is and how important it is to be prepared and flexible. I came through ATP during the “1500 hours and a pulse” wave after COVID, and thought for sure I’d be thinking about the legacies by now. Instead I’ve got apps out at regionals, 135s, and cargo carriers. I’ve talked to multiple people recently (including recruiters and interviewers) who’ve said my college degree is one of the strongest things on my resume, which is why I weighed-in on this topic.
To be clear, I have no regrets and am not complaining at all. I’m grateful for my experience at Spirit and excited for whatever comes next. But I’m also someone who can’t fathom doing anything else for a living besides flying airplanes. I would encourage anyone who doesn’t also feel that way to think very long and hard about whether to pursue this professionally. You can always just get a private license and fly around for fun…
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Noah,
Your post is one of the best I have ever seen on here explaining why a degree is important. Thank you for adding your insights.
Chris
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Thank you for the kind words, Chris. I appreciate that the mentors here don’t mind when people like me chime in with our experiences.
Noah, Adam and Hannah,
Thank you all for providing me with your perspective and opinions. It defidently has me thinking and will help me create an even more informed decision either way. I engaged in this post looking for counter arguments so I could see all sides of the argument, thank you for keeping it honest and factual.
Tommy
So ya’ll advise me to continue my degree to have a 4 year instead of a 2 year degree as a backup and a better … on resume right?
Hassan,
That is correct. A two year degree is not really a degree in the eyes of most businesses.
Chris
Hassan,
Work on the four-year degree, it will better suit you long run. As Noah gave his story, it really does also give you a backup plan in worst case scenario. You can major and study anything you want, art, business, communications, it does not matter. Find something that you enjoy, do well, and succeed.
Brady