I may have misread this from a few months ago, but I understood that ATP gave you a specific block of time to attain your multi engine license before moving on to earn your commercial license, but now it appears that they expect you to gain your commercial multi engine rating at the same time as your multi engine rating itself? I only ssume this because it doesnt mention multi engine check ride, only commercial multi check ride. Any response to clear when you actually begin multi engine will be helpful, thanks for any responses.
You’re understanding is correct. In the past you got your ME rating as any add-on to your Private. Now it’s simply an add-on to your Commercial. Really nothing to be concerned with and as I recall it’s the basically the same maneuvers.
am i correct to understand that as an add on to your commercial t excludes the private side and must be accuired elsewhere? or can you simply obtain a commercial add on without a private aspect. apologies if thats an ill informed question.
You can get a Commercial ME rating without having a Private ME rating. The regulations do state that you must hold a Private Pilot certificate to be eligible for a commercial certificate (SE or ME), but does not specify that the private certificate must be SE for a Commercial SE rating or ME for a Commercial ME rating. It can be any Private Pilot certificate. You will hold your SE Private rating before you start any Commercial training at ATP.
You could get Private ME on your own if you wanted to, but it would actually be unnecessary since a Commercial rating gives you the same privileges as Private with the addition of being allowed to be compensated for your abilities.
Wow thats very helpful, do you think this will have any negative effect on the learning curve on students trying to earn the commercial aspect of it whilst simply trying to learn to fly the plane itself?
Funny you should ask, I’m actually in that exact situation myself. I’m right in the middle of my Commercial ME training at ATP right now.
I did my SE Private training a couple years ago at a different school and started at ATP back in January with Instrument training (which is also in the SE aircraft). I got in the ME Seminole for the very first time a couple weeks ago. The first flight was honestly pretty rough, just trying to get used to a new plane that feels a little different to fly and has different aerodynamics affecting it, not to mention more systems to deal with on the aircraft. It felt pretty discouraging at first, coming from the SE Skyhawk, which I felt very comfortable in and competent to fly proficiently, to a brand new plane and not feeling as confident or competent. But I finished the last of my initial training in the Seminole yesterday, which is about 11 hours of flight time, and even said to my instructor at the end of the flight that I felt MUCH more comfortable now than the first flight a couple weeks ago, and he agreed that he could tell.
While it is a new plane that takes some adjustment to get used to, I feel like it is just that: an adjustment. It’s not like you have to learn to fly all over again. Much of the skills you’ve already acquired just transfers over and still applies. Most of the maneuvers you practice will be ones you’ve already done in SE Private training, with the exception of a couple that are specific to ME aircraft.
Changing airplanes is always a bit daunting. I just went from a 737 to a Airbus 320, it was a major transition for me and I am still trying to get comfortable in the Airbus.
There is no need to acquire a private multi license, nor is there any need to go outside of ATP for your training, they will help you get every license that you need.
Thanks for letting me know you’re in the same boat and seem to be coping well, very encouraging. You said you started back in January and it seems you have at least two more months to go for CFI, passing the six months, was there any reason other than weather or examiner availability? also if I may ask, how is your instructor? Have you had any extra exspenses needed or bumps in the road? sorry for all the questions and any response would be helpful and I wish you luck on the rest of your training, hope to join you soon.
Thanks for the information it clears up some confusion I had. It is interesting to me that since they took out the private multi engine section, youd think the pricing would get cheaper, but in fact it seems to have risen over 6k since I last looked at it. I wonder why?
Ummmm maybe it’s because instead of a pointless rating (and one more potential checkride to bust AND checkride fee) you’re getting more multi-time. In fact you’re getting enough ME time so if you decide not to instruct for ATP you’ll have already satisfied the ATP license requirements. I know you’re new but trust me, that’s worth ALOT more than your ME PPL.
The price has gone up for several reasons.
ATP is continuing to invest in new airplanes and Flight Training Devices, this takes money.
There are now ten more flight hours in the program than before.
The textbooks are now included in the price.
Other expenses to the company continue to rise.
Eliminating the PPL multi did nothing to reduce the length of the program or simplify it, it was done to reduce a check ride burden on the students. With the new ten extra hours added in, the program is a higher value now than it was before.
I’m actually not too far behind at the moment. I have my Commercial ME check ride scheduled for June 5th, which is only a little over a week off the expected pace. Weather does have an affect on training progress, as well as instructor, aircraft, and examiner availability. It seems to me every location is unique on which of those factors affect them, but I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Between a scheduled day off during the week and the weekends off, there’s plenty of opportunities to catch up if needed, which you can coordinate with your instructor.
I have had the opportunity to fly with each of the instructors at my location (there’s only 3 of them), and they’re all very friendly, encouraging, knowledgeable, and competent teachers.
I have not yet had to deal with any additional expenses in my training. The only real concern there is if you failed a check ride as you would have to pay extra for additional training and then the check ride re-take, but hopefully that won’t happen. And like Adam and Chris said, eliminating the Private ME check ride from the program entirely helps reduce your chances of that happening.
Thank you for sharing your experiences. I am glad everything is going well
What all does the Commercial Multi Engine Add-On entail? I know there isn’t a written required, but do you have to perform all the same maneuvers as the SE commercial again? I’m sure there is a lot of focus on engine out operations?
Oral focuses on Systems, Performance and Limitations, Emergency Operations, and Multiengine Aerodynamics. Flight consists of at least two takeoffs and landings (normal and short field), go around, steep turns, slow flight, power off, power on and accelerated stalls, Vmc Demo, emergency descent, engine failure in the pattern, engine failure at altitude, maneuvering with one engine inoperative, shut down/troubleshoot/air start, and engine failure with a single-engine ILS approach under the foggles. Nothing too crazy. The flight is usually around 1.7-2 hours.
Sergey covered it very well (still fresh in his mind) but you’re right about the focus. The fact is if you’re flying a twin and both engines are turning, other than the extra levers, gauges and power, it’s not very different than a single. It’s when you lose one that things get interesting and the feds want to know that you know what to do when that happens. As he said, nothing too crazy.
Adam and Sergey,
Thanks for your response!
Your question was already answered, but I wanted to add that it should be one of the easiest check rides that you will take.
Thanks Chris! Looking forward to it! I still have 6 months before I am able to get back to training though