I’m a recently-ish separated Navy veteran (as of October 2022) who got an office job and I am very simply not feeling it. My job is located next to a major airport (due to the nature of the company), and suddenly, I realized a job path I had not considered was staring me in the face. I’ve always had a fascination with aviation, but my poor vision turned me away from it. Turns out I was only looking at military fighter pilot rules, and my laser-corrected vision now would absolutely allow me to fly.
There’s a mom and pop school that offers relatively(?) cheap introductory flights for $129, and I want to schedule a flight to make sure I’m not jumping on a new path without knowing if it’s a good idea (re: my current job). I read in another post that I can take an introductory flight at both ATP and a second school, and that’s a good way to really know if I want to do this.
Assuming putting my hands on the controls makes me realize that, yes, piloting is the life I want, I have concerns about finances. I currently have about two years of VA educational benefits remaining with 100% eligibility under the post-9/11 GI Bill, but I don’t think most of this flight training will be covered. Being a flight instructor, for example, is not the same as attending classes. I also have a wife and two small children, and I’m the sole breadwinner in the house. Given how long it takes to accrue the 1500+ hours (if I could somehow be in the air for 8 hours/day, 7 days/week, that’s still 6+ months) and how much less flight instructors learn than commercial pilots or my own job, I’m worried about putting my family out of a home in pursuit of my passion. Sallie Mae is for school loans, I thought, so I don’t know about paying my mortgage, food, clothes, etc. while making my way to being a pilot. Has anyone been in this sort of situation? ATP says I need to be able to dedicate myself full-time to being a student, so part time jobs would get in the way of that. My wife is unable to work due, so I’m not sure how this would even be feasible.
Like I said earlier, all of this depends on how these introductory flights go. I apologize for laying out all my worries here, I just try to do as much research as I can before making any big decisions. I appreciate anyone taking the time to read through all of this.
Flight training is expensive and there’s really no way around that. Factor in the fact that successful flight training relies on training full-time and you quickly see that the financial aspect can be the biggest obstacle to this career.
Most student pilots aren’t wealthy and since the average age for new starts is in the early 30s, when many have families and obligations, and it’s safe to say that MANY people are in your situation (btw the average time to build 1500hrs is about 1.5yrs and that’s AFTER you complete your training. You won’t be flying 8hrs day/7 days). The solution for most people is taking out loans to cover not only training but also your living expenses while you’re training. After that it’s a matter of seriously tightening your belt.
This is a great career with great rewards but it will require alot of sacrifice on you and your family’s part to get there.
My 8 hours/7 days was meant to be an impossible best scenario; the FAA limits pilots to 36 hours/week, correct? Factor in weather and who knows what else… it will be a long time until I can make ends meet by flying.
I’ll come back to this thread when I think of more questions. Thank you for the quick and frank response, Adam!
Your 8 hours/7 days a week flying correlating to the FAA limit of 36 hours/week I think is referring to Airline Pilots doing side work with rest periods etc. Without digging deep into that regulation, the regulation this is pertaining to I believe is 14 CFR § 117.23 - Cumulative limitations.
In fact, I remember a Sheppard Air CAX question pertaining to this - hopefully someone that recently took it can mention the exact regulation I am trying to think of.
Im looking into getting my commercial pilots license. Financing is not an issue . My only hold up , will there be work after I graduate? So realistically I would finish my hours within 3 years roughly or sooner depending on weather ect…
While all indications are that the pilot shortage will continue, NO ONE can predict the future. Covid-26 hits, economy tanks, another 9/11, etc etc etc and things could come to a screeching halt. Further you could be a lousy pilot, bust a bunch of checkrides, have an accident or incident during training, lose your medical, be generally unpleasant during an interview and no matter how short the airlines are, not get an offer. The point is there are zero guarantees and not everyone can or should be a pilot.
That all said, do well, be professional or affable and there will always be opportunities.
If only Adam had that crystal ball, I’d be asking for the lottery numbers every Tuesday and could we predict the future, I’d love to know when my dream hangar home is going to be built (AND YES, I already have started drawing my blueprints for it).
If you complete a training program in good standing, network well, and go above/beyond when you can, there will not be a problem of not finding work. This shortage is around and here for an unforeseen time, it’s going to oscillate in both directions until someone can figure out the “perfect” solution. The clock is ticking, now is the time to start if you’d like to get a career in the industry.
The ATP timeline is built to complete all your ratings and time building an under 24 months. Of course, there are a lot of variables with weather, plane availability and student demands. However, most people finish within the two years.
If starting zero time, you would finish the program in roughly 7 months with about 300 hours. That leaves 17 months to build the remaining 1200 hours. That would take about 70 hours of flying per month to complete within 2 years.
As for the jobs, well no one can predict that. There’s indications it could last up to 8 years but that’s just a highly educated guess. The only thing you can control is your training, your timeline and your future. The best you can do is hope that times stay good and jobs will be plentiful.
Thank you for keeping this conversation going in my absence. A very important question has come up while talking this over with my wife: what is the home life like? Or the time off? Holidays? Obviously people fly for Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc., but do pilots get to take vacation days? My wife is worried about me missing family events (her dad is a firefighter and has 24 hour shifts).
As we often say, EVERYTHING at the airlines is based on seniority. With that in mind, your wife doesn’t need to worry that you might miss some holidays or family events. You 100% WILL! (So there’s no need to worry or wonder). Airlines fly 365 days a year, someone has to work those flights and that means until you build seniority you will miss holidays, little league games, dances, etc etc etc. Yes we get vacation but you bid for that too and yes EVERYBODY bids the holidays off, Spring Break, etc etc.
Eventually you’ll get to the point where you can get the days you want but that takes time, and if you take an early upgrade or move to a bigger airplane it’s back to the bottom and working holidays again.
While this is a great job it does require sacrifice. Something to think about and consider. I’m not trying to dissuade you but my BIGGEST pet peeve (and I have many) is new guys complaining about their schedules. No one put a gun to your head to do this and if you never asked how it works then shame on you. If you did then you have nothing to complain about.
At the airlines, time off is truly time off. There is very little take home work, if any at all. We do get several weeks of vacation, but they are bid in seniority. At the airlines I have worked for, it is not possible to take a day of vacation here or there, they have to be in complete weeks. Your wife is correct, you will miss family events, especially in the beginning. The good news is that it gets better with time and your ability to control your schedule improves greatly.
Thank you Adam and Chris. Thanks to the Navy we are quasi-used to missing holidays. I’ve had Christmas Day duty (with bonus busy work!), which meant I also had New Year’s duty. Then there was all the time spent underway (2015 never happened for me, it was just water). I know better than to complain, I’m just trying to get as much information as possible before I make a major career change.
Speaking of military, does anyone have any experience with using VA educational benefits? ATP’s timeline says it’s only seven months of training, then it’s building the next 1200 hours. And do military related disabilities affect medical qualifications? I got rated for sleep apnea and arthritis, both of which are fully treatable.
You will only be able to use your VA bennies for a few components of your training (like checkride fees) but not the training itself. The issue as I understand is the 7mos timeline. The VA will only give you so much per year and only for certain programs which ATP doesn’t participate in due to the accelerated timeline.
Any conditions may effect your ability to get a First Class Medical but that’s a question for an AME (Aviation Medical Examiner). With that in mind I would definitely consult with one before you do anything else as you don’t want that to be a problem.
Other flight schools might use the benefits, right? But the big issue would be moving my family across the country again for the duration of this training. There’s an ATP about 45 minutes from my house, as well as a mom and pop school. As much as I would love to support Brett and his local business, I think it’d be like seeing a Harvard diploma vs. Jim’s Online School Graduation Certificate. Plus the local school doesn’t have direct pathways into major airlines…
I’ve already done the online portion of the First Class Medical, but I still need to make the appointment. I’ll need to use one of my off days because I don’t know how my bosses would react if I told them I’m going to the doctor so I can quit this job.
Flight schools that take VA benefits operate under a different set of rules that has the effect of making training take considerably longer, sometimes years longer. They dole the VA money out at a very slow rate and you still pay a considerable amount out of pocket. I would suggest saving the VA benefits for a college degree if you do not have one, or passing them onto your children.
You will need to speak with an AME about your medical questions, only they can answer those.
I am currently working with a career in the postal service making decent money, but truth be told am not currently satisfied with the prospect of a full career in my current position. I have a passion for aviation and thrilled at the opportunity ATP potentially provides. Currently with a few investments and short term obligations over the course of the next 12-18 months I’m tied up financially. With that being said I intend to over the course of the next 3-5 years setting the funds aside to pay for tuition and school fees with ATP. I am blessed to currently be working a job that allows me to do so. I am pretty certain a career as an Airline pilot offers a nice work-life balance and a steep increase in my current salary. As long as Tuition fees remain stable I do believe that is the route I will end up taking. As the idea of debt is a bit of a deterrent. I plan on paying out of pocket for training with ATP
While I understand the desire to stay away from debt, keep in mind that pilots have a finite amount of years they can work. Senior airline Capts earn up to $450k plus a year. That means that every year you delay is a year you forfeit earning that top money (not to mention seniority and all the benefits that come with it). Just something to consider.
Also while it’s great to have a “passion”, until you’ve actually flown in a small training airplane you really won’t know if it’s something you’ll enjoy. If you’ve never been up I strongly recommend you take an intro flight or lesson first, before you do anything else.
Adam,
Thank you for the kind advice, I have been up in a small single engine prop plane only once and have been hooked ever since. You have given me much to consider and with your advice in mind I will continue to pursue an opportunity in this career path. With due time and lots of hard work I hope I too have an opportunity to turn a dream into a career. I am accustomed to working hard but this is a completely different ball-game. Thank you again.
