Hey guys, so I looked through some older topics here and, essentially pilots aren’t allowed to record in the cockpit. I do wonder though, how certain pilots get away with this? There are pilots on Youtube and in social media who do the same thing, and it doesn’t seem like they faced any repercussions? A few examples.
The first video was from a UA 777, the second was from an AA 757. Have the FARs changed since then? Are these simply ballsy pilots?
Dan,
Other adjectives come to my mind when I see those. Irresponsible, unprofessional, foolish all seem more appropriate to me. I know there are plenty of people who drive drunk too and think that’s fine or even cool, UNTIL they get busted. Then they come on here crying and asking if they can still be pilots.
People literally place their lives in our hands and following the regs is a critical part of our jobs. Do people bend them like the ones you post? Sure but that doesn’t make it right, they’re not cool and they’re dumber then they are ballsy.
Adam
Dan,
Recording is prohibited when on an IFR flight plan and also prohibited by all US based airlines that I am aware of.
In the first video, the pilots are rather unprofessional and have several violations of sterile cockpit, so the fact that they are also recording does not surprise me. It could be that they are a foreign airline and this have different policies.
In the second video, the pilots are on the ground and at the gate, so there is no violation there.
As for all of the other videos out there, they are either from foreign carriers or from pilots posting them at their own risk.
Recording in the cockpit is very clearly against the rules. Furthermore, I don’t understand why anybody would do it.
Chris
I imagine each airline can have their own rules on that, however. I am sure someone else will chime in.
Airlines don’t operate under Part 91, we’re Part 121 and it’s prohibited in every airlines Flight Ops Manual I know of.
Adam
An interesting thing, is that the channel behind the 2nd video, one of his other videos was found by American Airlines and was played at the AA museum in Dallas for a few years. The video was primarily shot on the ground but included some in flight footage. Very odd why they would not only accept but actively use this video despite violating regulations. The specified video is below, the brief inflight footage is at around 2:17. You guys are better judges than I am if this violates any regulations.
There is a possibility that this pilot had permission from his airline and the FAA.
There is an Envoy Pilot that flew in Hawaii before that, his name escapes me.
He films when doing reposition flights (only pilots and maybe FAs, no Pax) which are part91. I believe he had permission and mentions he only films part91 & with equipment that is set/forget.
Ive watched a handful of Jumpseaters ask the Captain if they can take a picture or film.
No Pilot is going to find it acceptable if their partner has hands preoccupied with a phone during critical phase of flight. The PM needs to be cross-checking instruments and ready to perform a procedure or take controls.
Perfect example, happened recently when a Capt I know was landing an MD11 in 34kt gusting 60 XWind. That’s 1knot below limitation. In the flair “40ft”, the Capt blew out their left shoulder controlling the yoke. In split second they chose to continue to land rather than hitting TOGA and trying to swap controls. Luckily touched down safely and immediately gave controls to FO.
Honestly humbled when they told me their story.
Moral of the story, always be prepared,
Chris
Swayne Martin – I think is who you’re thinking of? I enjoy his YouTube videos, pretty informative and well organized.
Yeah, his videos are great. I’ve also noticed that he includes some text in his videos that claims that he is taping under part 91 compliance.
There are many great YouTubers who make flying videos. Steveo, FlightChops, Premier1driver, CitationMax… etc. However they are all flying private aircraft. US airlines under part 121 prohibit recording during flight. That’s also how Swayne can record his flight footage - they are empty repositioning flights flown under part 91. Other airline cockpit videos are almost all from international carriers who operate under different regulations.
Swayne Martin is an editor at the BoldMethod, and writes some articles there as well. We read a lot of the BoldMethod in my Aviation class, so I’m fairly familiar with him. We’re still reading those articles while doing the “school from home” thing; they’re pretty good articles. I’m about 50 miles north of NYC, so we have to do the whole “distance learning” thing. I actually would have already soloed, but my flight school is closed, so I didn’t get the chance.
Sorry to hear about the delayed solo! Hopefully this CV-19 passes thoroughly quick and everything will be opening up.
Side question: Is that Diamond (in your profile pic) a DA-20 you’re flying for your training?
Quick question, why is recording in cockpit prohibited in the u.s.a part 121 but allowed in part 91 and some international carriers?
Gloria,
There are a host of differences between Part 91 and 121 but the long short is Part 121 are Commercial airline rules. Since there’s a far greater opportunity for harm the rules are much stricter.
Adam
I would argue that recording in an airliner, even if operated under Part 91 is still illegal as the flight would still be operated under IFR rules.
I have never understood the obsession with filming landings.
See CFR 91.21
It’s the Diamond. In the flight training program that I’m in at school, we fly those or the Piper Warrior, but only 2 students fly those who literally wouldn’t fit in the DA-20 (size or weight, does anyone know?). Skinnier guys like me fly the Diamond (not that I’m complaining). I train at Take Flight Aviation in Montgomery NY.
I agree with the distaste for, and actual FAR issues with handling a handheld video recording device while controlling an aircraft in the air and on the ground as it is a distraction.
Part 91 flights, Paragraph B. Lists “anything determined to not interfere with Nav/Comm equipment is allowed”. That allows almost anything.
IMO King Schools, Flight Chops, MZeroA, Fly8MA, UND, Embry Riddle and many others have proven that it is legal to record in the flight deck both Part91 VFR and IFR as long as the language in the FARs is followed “Does not interfere with Nav/Comm equipment”.
Some of these schools also advocate recording as a way to assist debriefs. Obviously they are “Set and Forget cameras not manipulated in-flight/taxi”.
As far as Airlines go, gotta check the FOM. My carriers FOM Prohibits specific things like cell phones, but does not state camera or video recording. For Jumpseaters the PIC determines what they can use.
I could not find a specific Letter of Interpretation from the FAA regarding video recording.
Here is an AOPA article regarding pilots posting videos.
The FAA has been going after people who record themselves breaking/bending FARs via videos footage. I think most of us would agree a pilot physically taking a cell phone video during a critical phase of flight could be seen as “Careless or Reckless Operation” FAR 91.13.
I’ll see what my buddy from class that is an Aviation Lawyer and used to represent the FAA in the past thinks.
Moral of the story, I’ll sum up with a Philip Defranco quote.
“Don’t be Stupid, Stupid”,
Chris
Chris,
I will be interested to know what your attorney friend says about this.
Chris
Here is what I asked him.
whats the FAA opinion is on video recording in the Flight Deck. Part 91 vs 121 & VFR vs IFR? Legal or not Legal? Told them I’d ask you
Here was his reply.
“Recording videos on the flight deck is generally permitted in 91 operations. For part 121 operations, the airline op specs will be controlling, most prohibit non approved electronic devices on the flight deck”
Robert S
I followed up asking about ours directly.
His reply was “it’s not specifically banned but the interpretation could be stretched to include it into the rules. Doesn’t advise unless getting permission. Also wouldn’t advise because can be used as evidence if anything happened”.
Happy Easter,
Chris F