Hello everyone, I have a question as it relates to future employment opportunities. At the moment, I have two busted checkrides on my record (PPL and CSEL). I own the mistakes on these checkrides and actually view them as positives, for the lessons I took away from them.
However, with these two failures, I hesitate continuing to the CFI phase and associated checkrides (CFI, CFII and MEI).
I was a rock climbing instructor and yoga teacher, so I can picture myself finding great joy instructing students about aviation, butā¦
TL;DR:
With this context, what is the better option ā¦ having the risk of yet another checkride failure but having the āCFIā on my resume, or having my commercial license and instrument rating with a cleaner checkride history?
Newsflash Chris, if you want to fly for an airline you had better get used to the idea of checkrides (at least one a year FOREVER. You think the CFI check is will be challenging just wait till newhire training!). Are you going to pass on upgrade or a new airplane due to fear of failure? How do you plan to build the required hours without your CFI?
Listen this is your life and your career but personally if I was that concerned about another bust Iād seriously think of this was the right career for me. Pilots donāt get paid for what we do day in and out which is easy 90% of the time. Itās the other 10% when we earn our pay. When the stress level goes up will you perform or will you roll up into a ball? Iāve seen both.
Thank you for your response, Adam. I do realize checkrides occur frequently at the airlines. I am considering Part 135 operations, as well, but assume they have frequent checks, as well.
Iām simply curious how much weight the CFI designation carries. I have other options to build hours ā¦ so itās not something I would do to simply build hours (I wouldnāt want that from an instructor, anyway).
You can have a very successful career without a CFI (I know many pilots who have) so sure you can cut and run.
With that Iāll bore you with a quick anecdote. My best friend (whoās also the best pilot I know. Has 6 types, instructor pilot and check airman) busted ONE checkride back in the day. She was so angry at herself for busting this one checkride she vowed to never let it happen again. She works and studies harder than ANYONE Iāve ever seen (myself included) and can literally answer any question that can be asked from any of the manuals as she knows them all cover to cover. Guess what? Itās been 25yrs since that bust and it was her only one ever. You can put in the work or take the easy route and protect your resume. Your call.
I have come to know individuals who did not make it through CFI initial and found other ways to build time. Some have since gone back to a P61 flight school and acquire their CFI after busting it the first time and now hired at flight schools to instruct. I canāt relate rock climbing instructor to flight instructor given itās two different things, but having some teaching background may be beneficial to you. The failures you received prior on PPL and CSEL may help you realize your mistakes and improve them becoming a flight instructor. I remember the struggles I received during my checkrides, I emphasized them as an instructor to prevent my students from those challenges.
This is your career and while we can provide mentorship on what we would do, it is your life and career, and weāre not in your shoes. I can say, I have seen individuals fail checkrides, but pass the CFI initial without problem. Youāre an ATP student, have you had a discussion with your lead instructor and TSS? ATPās CFI Academy is a VERY straightforward phase of the program, you will have expectations/standards to meet just like any other phase of program.
Donāt mind me asking, what was some of the PPL and CSEL items you busted on? Were they in the oral or flight portion of the ride? Since then, have you learned from them and developed a strategy going forward to prevent these things from occurring again?
Thank you for your helpful response. This is more of what I was looking for.
The busted checkrides were both related to the flying portion. I landed short of the aiming point for the short field landing (private) and landed long for the power off 180 (commercial).
They are great learning experiences, as I can help future students work through similar struggles. I already have them in my lesson plans for where to look during the flare and how to manage the throttle.
Hereās the route I would go: if ATP is offering you the CFI Academy and chance at becoming a CFI, I would take it; take the challenge, opportunity at CFI Academy. If youāre not ready after your 3 flights, youāre not ready. If it takes the 2-year CFI to say, āI donāt think youāre ready,ā youāre not ready. The 2-year CFIās that ATP has are very knowledgeable in who is going to succeed and who is going to struggle or fail a checkride. Ultimately it is your career, record, but I have seen students fail the PPL and/or CSEL and PASS their CFI initial. It will take work, time, sweat and maybe some tears, but itās DOABLE.
As for the short field landing, make sure youāre coming in at your appropriate speed, and aiming point. On the Power Off 180 (which is ONE of the MOST busted items on the CSEL checkride), remember to keep that line of sight consistent, recognizing change of atmospheric conditions, and keep the plane in a āstableā descent without making abrupt changes to your flight path.
We always say, you will learn to be a better pilot by teaching others. Making the mistakes early on will happen, itās what you do with those mistakes that shows your character of a pilot.
I also busted two check rides during my initial training. IFR on the ground at the end of the oral on a fuel diversion scenario, and CMEL on the final short field landing. (Landed about 200 ft long.) Both busts from the same examiner. I own the failures, and they really REALLY bother me, but I canāt change them and Iāve chosen to remain positive. I put off CFI for a long time and enjoyed my certificates while continuing to work as a police officer and looking for my first flying job. After many months of searching with no luck, Iām heading back down the instructor route since I already had the writtens completed anyways.
I begin my CFI training at a school close to home in February. I realized Iām not afraid of failure anymore. Itās not that I donāt care or Iām indifferent. Failing check rides is very serious, and Iāll never forget how it made me feel. But I canāt be paralyzed with the fear of failure anymore. Iām going to do the best I can to put the work in and be the best CFI I can for my students and use my failures as teaching points should the opportunity present itself. Iām not saying the busts donāt matter and it remains to be seen for me personally how it may or may not affect my career. But what I can tell you is there are people with manyā¦ noā¦ a scary amount of busts that I have seen be hired by the airlines. Not saying it will always be that way, but they are out there. Grab the bull by the horns and face it head on.
Itās great to hear from you and that youāre getting back into it! Your attitude about tackling āthe fearā of checkrides is something many struggle with, and sets them back during a checkride; it is nice to see how youāre approaching your previous busted checkrides. It has been a WHILE since Adam mentioned it, but if youāre nervous for a checkride, you should keep studying, and if you arenāt nervous, you should study more.
Please keep us in the loop once you complete your training, would love to hear how it turns out.
P.S., if and when an interview panel asks about a failure on a checkride, be prepared to tell them how you overcame that failure and grew on it. āTMAATā
I think you should pursue CFI. Of course itās a risk, but with a great reward. You are at no disadvantage going in to that check ride. Itās a clean slate, youāre the only one putting yourself at a disadvantage with your mind set. Face the challenge, use what you learned from the first 2 busts and do everything in your power to make sure it doesnāt happen again.
What Adam is trying to say, you canāt run from the fear of check rides. If you want to be an airline pilot, you have to make peace with this aspect. You will need to use the fear to drive your preparation then get in the moment and perform. Better to figure it out now than struggle later in initial new hire training with a lot more to lose.