I am currently 17 years old and doing dual enrollment through a local college so by the time I graduate high school I will also be receiving my Associates degree. I will also already have my private pilots license by the time I graduate. I am curious on what is the quickest, and cheapest way to get my R-ATP. I know I need to take my time and enjoy the process, but I also don’t want to drag my feet and get behind. I thought about doing a college aviation course through Liberty University to get my bachelors and flight accreditation through the college, to cut hours down to 1,000. However, I recently saw that you can get your R-ATP by the time you turn 21 as long as you have the 1500 hours, no bachelor degree necessary. Would any airlines care, especially the legacy carriers, if I only have my associates degree? I know I would be going to regionals first, but I don’t want not having a bachelor degree to affect me later on down the road. Which path would be the smartest for my path to the airlines so I can get there in the shortest amount of time? Thanks in advance!
Brycen,
This is probably our most FAQ. There seems to be 2 fairly common misconceptions out there. First is Majors no longer want a 4yr degree. While it’s not a requirement for any airline, it is (and always has been) a preferred and competitive minimum.
Second, a 2yr or Assoc degree is not really a degree, which is why the airlines ALL ask “do you have a 4yr Bachelors degree?” vs do you have a degree.
Now while there are some pilots who have been lucky and gotten hired without a 4yr degree, without question the vast majority do. Further as the pilot shortage begins to wane (which it already is) that degree will become more and more important for your career progression.
Adam
Adam,
Thank you so much for your feedback. I thought that having the 4 yr would look better and was planning on most likely receiving it anyway. I just wanted to make it really would make me stand out in the long run. I’m planning to do Liberty University online as I stated before, and get all hour hours and certifications from a local flight school here in Florida. Do you know what regional airlines, if any, would have interest in hiring me at 21 with 1000 or more hours?
Brycen,
To get the 500hr reduction you need to do your flight training AS PART OF your Aviation degree (not just at the same time). If the flight school isn’t actually doing the training FOR the university you don’t get the reduction and will need the 1500hrs to get your R-ATP and get hired by a Regional.
Regardless, there’s no way of knowing which Regionals will do what when you’re at that point, which you’re not. Right now you should focus on your education and your flight training. Depending on how you do in your training and many other factors (grades, driving record, your personality and demeanor, etc) will determine who will hire you at that time. It’s more than just having the ATP minimums.
Adam
Sorry I should have been more clear. Liberty University is partnered with a flight school in Milton, which is used for students in their bachelors in professional flight program to become an airline pilot. So it does count as a reduction. Other than that, grades are sitting around 3.8 gpa, and I’m a very focused and dedicated person while keeping a friendly environment. Another important thing I’m nervous about is that I’m Type 1 Diabetic. I have perfect eyesight, and medically I’m extremely healthy. My A1C is sitting at around a 5.5 which is even better than a lot of non-diabetics. I know the airlines will now hire T1D, but it still is a concern.
Brycen,
Airlines never wouldn’t hire pilots with diabetes, the issue is the FAA. Do you currently hold a First Class medical? If the answer is no that should be the first thing you take care of. Not a Third, not a Second, a First Class unrestricted medical.
Adam
I don’t hold one currently. However, this summer, when I go to get my private pilots license, I will make sure to get my First Class Medical before doing so just in case. I should hopefully get it within the next couple weeks!!
Brycen
You really need to get the ball rolling right now on your medical. If you get deferred to Oklahoma, the process will take months. My case isnt diabetes, but OKC processes deferrals in order they receive them, yours won’t go to the front of the line because youre simply a medical issue, not a lifestyle/criminal issue. FWIW, I started my medical process early July of 2023, and its been since end of October since the last round of paperwork I sent them with no end in sight. MedXpress just shows “in review” day after day, and calling them accomplishes nothing, they can’t tell you how far along your medical is or anything, so who knows how long it’ll take
There’s no harm in obtaining your first class medical early, and the only reason one would wait til beginning of flight training to get one is if they can without a shadow of a doubt guarantee they can walk into the AMEs office and walk out with medical in hand
Wow I never realized it could take that long to get your medical certificate. I always knew it wouldn’t be super fast, but I thought it would be a 2 week type of deal. Thank you so much for letting me know that so I can get started as soon as possible!
Brycen,
I know this is probably not what you want to hear, but I would recommend going to college first, then flight training. There is a certain maturity that comes with age that ATP finds helps students be successful in pilot training. Can you do it at a young age? Absolutely, but your training record will matter as well when applying to the airlines. I know you want to fly, but I still recommend college first.
Chris
Thank you for your response. I can definitely understand the fact of waiting until after college that way you can really focus on flight training however if I want the hours reduction, I will need to take the actual flight course with the college. As for maturity, I can say with 100% certainty that I am more mature than 99% of kids around my age. I am focused on my school, my future, and my family. I’ve never got into trouble with the law, never went to parties, never done anything to prevent my success. I am solely focused on my perseverance. Top of class and super fit. I can understand from a developmental perspective that people may think I’m still “young”, but everyone I’ve ever met says I’m very mature for my age. Once again, I’m not trying to boost my self up. Thank you for your response!
Bryce,
While we do not know you personally nor can tell you what to do, the others would not have suggested the paths if there’s a reason. I can promise you, while you think you’re mature, flight training is a serious thing and I would not be surprised if this attitude catches up with you. Being confident is one thing, but this is a strong statement.
I too suggest attending some sort of college/university and acquire some degree of choosing before exploring the flight training path. I met a student recently at my local airport who attended Liberty University in Lynchburg, who was working on his CFI, he informed me that in order to be a candidate for the program you must be in good standing and selected amongst many applicants. I’m not sure of Embry-Riddle’s process, but I would keep your options open. While the R-ATP seems great, if you compare apples to bananas (“Liberty” to ATP), the timeline is very similar, just different paths… something to consider. You cannot get the R-ATP lifted until you reach 1,500, meet the requirements for 61.159, and be 23 years of age. If you started college right after high school, you’d be 21ish (my guess) when you graduate, start flight training immediately after and begin building time by 22 (again, my guess), you’ll be in the airlines with an ATP by your mid 23-24. Just my four cents.
Anything in regard to medical conditions, it’s best to seek an AME and consult. While congress and the airlines have put some attention to the diabetic side of things, depending on the case, history, and medication, it can create a process to obtain a medical. I recommend consulting with an AME about the medical before indulging in ANY flight training.
Brady
Thank you for your response. As you stated, no one on here does know me. I made that statement purely off every kid I know and have went to school with. I am one of the least cocky people you could find, I am modest but honest. With that being said, this is why I made that comment. Not because I’m cocky, but because I know, see, and hear things other kids my age do. I understand that flight training is rigorous and not for the faint of heart. I never said it wasn’t or denied that. I am getting my PPL this summer. As for college, I mentioned that when I graduate high school, I will receive my associate degree as well. So, I will be able to get my bachelors by the time I am 19-20 years old. So If I go to say Liberty, and am accepted into their program, I should have all necessary requirements by the time I turn 21. I looked into Embry riddle, however, having a sibling that goes there, I can say that Embry Riddle is not that great of a school to go to right now. It’s very expensive, has to many kids with no where to park, and the faculty their seem like they have no clue what they are doing.
Brady,
Every kid I’ve met, hung out with, talked to, went to school with, ect. Has made fun of me for being so dedicated on my studies and future. They talk bad and try to lower my self esteem just for choosing to go to college instead of high school. So it does hurt hearing you tell me that I “have an attitude” when that is not true at all. I have the ability to Choose to better my future and my life by making these decisions from being mature.
Bryce,
I’m sorry you feel that I talked down on you; however, that was not my intention. I too was bullied, harassed, berated growing up through my primary education, and while I would love to say, “I was mature at 18,” I was not. Being mature is more than having a tangible goal set, life values, etc., it’s about growth, dependability, responsibility, and many more. 17 is still young, there is a LOT that can happen between now and May/June (when you will graduate high school); and even before you would start college in August/September. Maturity is something that comes with time, experiences, growth, interactions, accepting when you’re wrong, and more, in life.
Here’s a piece of life advice I would love to say: if you hang around those that bully, berate and treat you in a negative way, you will eventually plateau, and growth will hinder. What you can do against those that bully or harass you, is remain in silence; bullies want reactions in life, it is what fuels and makes them continue their actions. Haters will hate, focus on you and always remember the - why (behind everything you do, in life).
Again, my apologies if you felt that I talked down, the way that one presents themselves on a public domain is how an interpretation can be created. Please also don’t overlook the consulting an AME on my reply over the way I made you feel, you’re looking to invest more than $100,000 into a career that is one of the best out there (like the others’, I’m bias in this field), the last thing you want is to cause delays due to an issue obtaining a medical. I’d consult with an AME sooner rather than later to make sure you can clear any delays going forward.
Brady
Thank you for your response. I understand that was not your intention, and I’m sorry to hear that you were bullied as well but I’m glad you were able to overcome that and become the successful pilot you are today. I’m happy to say that I don’t hang out with the people like that anymore. I surrounded myself with people with similar goals and focuses in life such as myself. I understand what you mean by maturity in that aspect and I completely agree! I don’t believe anyone can truly become completely mature, it is something that you continually expand and grow upon In life. You are correct with that. I will consult an AME as well.
Bryce,
While I appreciate your empathy, I am thankful I was bullied because it showed me the type of person I did NOT want to become in life. You will encounter individuals who will want to set you back (whether jealously, hatred, etc.), it’s how you respond that shows your character.
Keep your head up, write down your goals, and don’t let small speedbumps break down any dreams you have in life.
Brady
Brycen,
The hour reduction is enticing for many but don’t get to blinded by that. If you choose a 4 year aviation degree and qualify for the 1000 R-ATP, you spend 4 years to complete 4 ratings. You still graduate and have to get a job to build time. At best, you get the remaining hours in a year that still is 5 years to get to airline mins and you’re left with a degree that leaves no backup plan and hefty loans.
Or you could get your bachelors in anything else at a budget (in state tuition) taking summer semesters and get done a bit earlier. 3-3.5 years then do ATP and by the same 4 years you’ve got a backup degree, 7 ratings under your belt and a job to start building time right away. Plus you gain access to the dozens of pathway programs exclusively for ATP grads.
Hannah
Hannah,
Thank you for your response. As I’ve said, I am dual enrollment so when I graduate high school at 18, I will be graduating with my associates degree as well. I will also have my PPL by that time. Then, I plan to attend liberty university online, take their pilot program, which I can finish in about 2 years, or by the time I’m 20. That way I can be a CFI-CFII-MEI and be making money. So, if everything goes to plan, I should have the required hours by the time I’d turn 21. If I do regular bachelor, I would first have to complete that, then do flight training, then build hours. Which seems like it would take me a lot longer. Also, liberty’s program will only cost me about 23,000 tuition not including flight thanks to my completion of the associate. If you don’t mind me asking, what path did you choose and what age did you get hired on by the airlines?
Brycen,
Just curious as I’ve looked without luck. Does Liberty have a single successful airline pilot graduate?
Adam